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NM firefighters sue over 'scene from hell'
FireRescue1 is reporting an interesting lawsuit taking place in Carlsbad.
CARLSBAD, N.M. — Firefighters and rescue workers who responded to a "scene from hell" after a gas pipeline explosion near Carlsbad in August 2000 won the right from the New Mexico Supreme Court to sue for emotional distress two years ago.
Read the full article at
http://www.firerescue1.com/fire-ems/articles/598542-NM-firefighters...
I'd be watching this one very closely as the outcome could have significant affects on the all emergency services not only in the USA, but potnetially all over the world.
At the heart of the matter is the emotional distress suffered by the firefighters by what they saw at the scene.
For too many years, CIS/PTS (or whatever other stress you want to call it!) has been swept under the mat.
Read the responses- one 30 year veteran says, "Seeing bad things is part of the job we all signed on for. If you can't deal with it get out of the service." His closing remarks are even more interesting, "Sorry Brothers but I hope you guys don't get a dime and the shyster lawyers representing you don't get their legal fees paid either. It's guys like you that are ruining the reputation of the Fire Service."
Let's not even pursue the use of the word "brother" where he's openly critical of their actions and the lawsuit.
I take to task the mentality that this is how it is, toughen up, etc.
Tell that to the volumes of emergency services who responded to our Black Saturday fires last fire season here in Australia. That fire will affect many of them for years and years to come. No one signs up to see and experience the trauma they saw over those few weeks. I have some very seasoned and expreienced friend who responded as part of the Strike Teams and they have all said pretty much the same thing, "If I never see anything like that again, it'll be too soon".
CIS/PTS is very real.
We can't continue to sweep it under the floor, ignoring it and hoping it will go away.
On the flipside however, I fear that the outcome of this case could potentially open the floodgates on a host of flase claims. Mental and psychological illnesses can be incredibly hard to identify and prove. Could this create a raft of lawsuits that will make a mockery of a serious issue?
As someone who has gone through my share of both formal and informal counselling, I hope not....
CARLSBAD, N.M. — Firefighters and rescue workers who responded to a "scene from hell" after a gas pipeline explosion near Carlsbad in August 2000 won the right from the New Mexico Supreme Court to sue for emotional distress two years ago.
Read the full article at
http://www.firerescue1.com/fire-ems/articles/598542-NM-firefighters...
I'd be watching this one very closely as the outcome could have significant affects on the all emergency services not only in the USA, but potnetially all over the world.
At the heart of the matter is the emotional distress suffered by the firefighters by what they saw at the scene.
For too many years, CIS/PTS (or whatever other stress you want to call it!) has been swept under the mat.
Read the responses- one 30 year veteran says, "Seeing bad things is part of the job we all signed on for. If you can't deal with it get out of the service." His closing remarks are even more interesting, "Sorry Brothers but I hope you guys don't get a dime and the shyster lawyers representing you don't get their legal fees paid either. It's guys like you that are ruining the reputation of the Fire Service."
Let's not even pursue the use of the word "brother" where he's openly critical of their actions and the lawsuit.
I take to task the mentality that this is how it is, toughen up, etc.
Tell that to the volumes of emergency services who responded to our Black Saturday fires last fire season here in Australia. That fire will affect many of them for years and years to come. No one signs up to see and experience the trauma they saw over those few weeks. I have some very seasoned and expreienced friend who responded as part of the Strike Teams and they have all said pretty much the same thing, "If I never see anything like that again, it'll be too soon".
CIS/PTS is very real.
We can't continue to sweep it under the floor, ignoring it and hoping it will go away.
On the flipside however, I fear that the outcome of this case could potentially open the floodgates on a host of flase claims. Mental and psychological illnesses can be incredibly hard to identify and prove. Could this create a raft of lawsuits that will make a mockery of a serious issue?
As someone who has gone through my share of both formal and informal counselling, I hope not....
Add a Comment
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Comment by Rusty Mancini on October 23, 2009 at 5:37pm
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Amen BD! Might have to add a new narrative into the application process." Beware" you will bare witness to horrific scenes etc..etc..
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Comment by Brian Dumser on October 23, 2009 at 3:04pm
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These guys need to "Man up" and move on, possibly to other careers! I've seen a lot of things that I wish I could un-see in the 15 years I've been doing this, but I never even thought of suing anybody for "making" me see it! Get real.
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Comment by lutan1 on October 23, 2009 at 1:33am
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Jack- read my post again- I said that it was a charge handed down to Exxon Mobil by the Royal Commission.
Again, I restate my opinion- this case has the potential to go either way and will create some interesting outcomes for the services- either good or bad- who knows?
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Comment by Jack/dt on October 22, 2009 at 11:00pm
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Lutan1;
Lou, come one! Is a cop going to sue because he rolls up onto a grizzly scene of murder?
I strongly disagree with you brother. Being a firefighter means that we are going to see things that we are truly going to regret, but to sue someone because we saw it? I don't think so.
If an officer does something wrong and it results in death or injury to his crew the family may be taking action. Maybe...maybe the firefighters have an actionable suit as well. But to sue someone, anyone, just because you had to go and see the carnage? Sorry bro, but I disagree.
I've been there to mop up drunks that kill themselves in car wrecks, do I sue the bar/restaurant that served them? How about the car manufacturer that didn't put in a breathalizer?
What about the fiery wreck with victims burned to death? Who do I sue there, the guy that caused the accident or the company he worked for? Maybe my own department for sending me into that particular hell.
Bull shit! People need to grow a pair and take responsibility. If what you see, touch or smell affects you so badly, then quit. Find another job, become an accountant. But just because your mind, or your stomach can't handle it doesn't mean you can or should sue.
I understand that the images can wreak havoc with some people. Those are the ones that need to step back and re-assess. But moving forward and putting it all behind doesn't make a person heartless or less caring. It's about compartmentalization. Knowing what's relevant and what isn't.
"fire brigades wouldn't have been exposed to danger.... " Seriously? Exposed to danger? Good god man that's our bread and butter, being exposed to danger. I spent a month in Oz 2 years ago. With most of the worlds most poisonous snakes, spiders, jellyfish and sharks, you all LIVE the danger everyday. Yet your fire brigades aren't supposed to be "...exposed to danger..."? C'mon mate, it's what we deal with every day.
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And thus why I think this will make for a fascinating case, regardless of which way the outcome lands.
We do need remember that CISD is not always about crispy bodies and other stuff, though.
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lutan1, Please-------would that go for the person that was driving and happened to just kill some folks that they were the cause of, and I had to bare witness to? I mean come on now, if this is the case, were not going to have many folks left, doing this job!
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Going back to the original article, it seems to revolve around that fact that if the gas company did their job properly (maintenance, etc) then the FD wouldn't have been exposed to the trauma. Interesting food for thought.
Here in Australia, we had the Longford Gas Plant Explosion a few years ago. The whole State lost gas supply for 2 weeks. There was a Royal Commission into this event and one of throutcomes from the investigation was that Exxon Mobil put lives other than employees at risk through poor maintenance.
This was aimed at the dangers the fire crews faced when responding. Exxon claimed that, "They're the fire brigade, it's their job" (paraphrased). The Commission slammed them for this mentalitity and said that if they did their maintenance and staff training properly, the event would not have occurred and the fire brigades wouldn't have been exposed to danger....
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Just to be devil's advocate- let's remove the exposure to the bodies and that side of the trauma.
What if you were on a crew at a wildfire. Your crew is sent into an area to fight the fire front. Your crew consider the area to be questionable as you enter in terms of safety, but you continue. While there, your crew is trapped by the raging inferno. The truck is damaged. Your crew, including yourslef has experienced a life changing experience.
It is later revelaed that the leaders who made the call for you to go where you went, were not trained properly, or did not have the most accurate information at hand to make their decisions.
You and your crew are mentally traumatized by the lifechanging experience you've just been through.
Do you have the right to sue? Sure you didn't see burnt bodies, but poor decisions were made.
I'd say YES.
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Jack, your absolutely right! As bad as it sounds, being witness to gruesomeness comes with the job. Money is not going to erase the memories. If they win this case, others will be lining up! Now, I'm not saying some need help ,of course they do and they deserve the counseling that can be provided. IF they cant continue to do their job after that, then it's time to get out.
Whats going to happen on the next horrific scene they bare witness to? When are some of these folks going to understand that, hello---- seeing horrific crap comes with the world of being a firefighter! It's not about being Mr. macho, it's reality and, it's not going to go away!
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You are right! This case is going to be very interesting on how this plays out. I've read some of the comments on the link you provided, and they were interesting as well ! I guess will have to wait and see?
This has the potential of a sxxx storm!
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