Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Courtney Sanders on August 15, 2010 at 1:45am

I agree, for instance a roof removal will take less time to do with a good cordless sawzall & blade than the time to set up cutters. You can cut the windshield and posts with one tool without "pie" cuts.

Permalink Reply by Robert C. Baker on August 15, 2010 at 10:51am

As for me hand tools and potable tools such as sawz-alls, Black Hawk hand operated hyd. rams and spreaders and the Power Hawk Technologies tools and rams are usually my first choice. I also see the need for Hvy. Hyd. tools and do use them when appropriate but every job surley dosen't require them. You are definetly correct to begin thinking out of the box as no two rescues we run are the same. Keep in mind atleast where I come from 90% of our MVC's require only a door pop or a roof cut off, yes just cut it off if your gonna flap it Isay take the whole thing Its safer for everyone. Just my thoughts on the subject from and " Old School " old mans view.

Permalink Reply by Kev Ruane on August 16, 2010 at 7:28pm

Sometimes hand tools are great and much quicker than hydraulic rescue equipment, but the best thing to do is to set up a tool dump with everything available. Discounting tools because you prefer to use other tools isn't a wise move and you can get blinkered in to bad habits. The best thing in my opinion is to know how to use all of your tools to the best of your ability, know which ones are best for which scenario, this way you'll have the right tools for the right job and can even do simultaneous activity around the vehicle.

Permalink Reply by lutan1 on August 20, 2010 at 5:33pm

We've just had this exact discusison at our unit! We (myslef and another senior guy) challenged the crews to remove their door quicker using jaws than us using a Haligan Tool, speed brace and pliers.

We won.... :-)

Permalink Reply by kirk elliott on September 21, 2010 at 8:44am

give me jaws a sawzall ,pro bar & wind sheild saw & lets go to work.

Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on September 21, 2010 at 9:09pm

If you have preconnected hydraulic tools on reel lines, the "setup" time is the time it takes to move from the rig to the wrecked car with the tool. It takes the same amount of time to walk with a hydraulic cutter as it does with a sawzall.

If you have fortified steels or boron reinforcement in the roof posts, sawzalls might not cut the roof posts at all. You need a boron-rated cutter like the one Genesis makes for that.

I'm not anti-hand tools, or air chisels, or sawzalls, but the bottom line is that the newer technology cars resist hand tools much more than one from even 10 years ago.

Permalink Reply by Asst Chief Tim Cook on October 6, 2010 at 2:04pm

Sawsall WILL cut Boron(with the right blade). We're fast approaching the limits of what ANY cutter will do if we keep employing the "wrap"(layered) technology with Boron reinforcements that are showing up now. A GOOD sawsall will be a REQUIRED weapon of choice in the future.

Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on October 7, 2010 at 4:16am

...and it will take the "right"sawzall blade a lot of time, multiple blade changes, and a lot of heat generation to get one post cut.

 

We carry multiple sawzalls.  Their use is becoming more and more limited as the boron-rated cutters and combi tools show what they can do and how fast they can do it.

 

Permalink Reply by Asst Chief Tim Cook on October 23, 2010 at 4:18pm

Don't know what you are using for blades. We carry several different types including Diamond. Haven't found a pillar we couldn't cut (efficiently)yet. I'm of the belief that Cutters are reaching their Apex and soon you will be doing more sawing than shearing(cutting). Keep in mind we use Hi amp CORDED saws which may make a difference. Yes,I've cut boron with them.

Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on November 7, 2010 at 1:52pm

Our Genesis cutters have been able to shear any post or hinge we've needed to cut, including boron and HDLSA alloys.

I have nothing against recip saws, but boron posts really make for slow cuts.

I like the fastest option that won't hurt the patient, and for now, that option is a boron-rated power cutter.

Permalink Reply by Jeff Peters on February 14, 2011 at 2:40am

I have read some of the post here. I agree on some. Using a sawsall is a great tool for cutting certain metals. I personally would not waste my time using a sawsall on any post A, B, or C ect that has UHSS/Boron. During training we used 5 sawsall blades on a car that had Boron. It basically scratched the paint. If there is any sawsall blades out there that can cut boron on the first try, please let me know. I will buy them ASAP.
I'm sure I'm preaching this to some of you. It takes a minimum of 150,000 lbs to cut 1mm of Boron. Most cutters out there today have 200,000+ lbs of cutting force. I think there will be cutters out there very soon that will have 300,000+lbs of cutting force. Car technology changes about every 6 months and it makes it harder and harder to get into these vehicles. That is my 2 cents worth, maybe 3. Stay Safe.

Permalink Reply by Mike "Lapo" Lapotasky on March 1, 2011 at 11:12am

Agreed. However, we need to remember that although vehicles have stronger structures and materials, they still have weak points to attack.

Have you ever removed a roof above the top windshield sash? Try it sometime.

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