Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on May 25, 2009 at 4:58pm

I'd stabilize the rear of the car, cut it in half, cut the front seat backs out of the way, then do a detailed recon from the inside. Even if the driver and passenger's legs are pinned, it's possible to use air chisels and/or reciprocating saws to reverse scalp the car floor, ramp it down, and free the patients.

Lifting the truck could shift the car in a way that would finish off the survivor. It would not be my first choice.
I'd start with something that didn't mess with the heaviest part of the pin prior to trying to shift the big stuff.

Permalink Reply by Asst Chief Tim Cook on May 29, 2009 at 10:48pm

Ben,when you get a chance follow thye complete thread even if you have to go to Firehouse to do it. Had they done the heavy lift from the get go,Luke thinks there's a chance they might have made the "grab".With the fifth wheel blocked and a straight lift with the boom(not using the winches)it won't shift.At least not a a height required for the extraction. THIS one I'm sure of. BRR trial.

Permalink Reply by Harold Richard Hair on June 1, 2009 at 7:39am

i would call that a doa but for recovery i would use low pressure air bags to lift the truck and crib as it is being lifted (if you had enough airbags)

Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on June 1, 2009 at 7:45pm

I worked almost this same scenario on three different occasions. We used a Hurst 3-cell low pressure air bag once and twin stacks of Hurst high-pressure air bags once. We blocked the 5th wheel for the single-bag lift but not for the multiple bag lift due to detail differences in the pins.

The third time we cut the car in half in the manner that I described. All three patients survived, despite life-threatening injuries. We didn't have a heavy-lift wrecker available on any of the three occasions. Cutting the car in half took less than 10 minutes, and didn't require any heavy lifting or waiting on a wrecker.

Your way might work, but you need a heavy-lift wrecker for it. We didn't have any wrecker on scene for any of the three of these I've worked, and had saves all three times.

Permalink Reply by Asst Chief Tim Cook on June 1, 2009 at 9:38pm

On this type of ground(Using THIS picture) what do you lift on(with bags)? I'm OK with the LP it has enough "spread" but I'm most interested in WHAT you'd lift on with the HP bag.I'm VERY familiar with this particular kind of truck so my curiousity is killing me.Luke has some more pictures,when he gets them up a few more things will come to light.As the car is ahead of the front driving axle you might not need to block the fifth wheel,might let it pivot easier

Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on June 1, 2009 at 10:26pm

If there's not a transverse frame member where I want my airbag purchase point, I'd use two double stacks of HP bags against the frame rails as one option. If there's not a transverse frame member where I want to lift, it may be possible to create one by bridging with long sections of cribbing.

Permalink Reply by Asst Chief Tim Cook on June 5, 2009 at 8:48pm

Problem with that as I recall was the ground around the wreck was quite soft and the bags sunk more than they lifted even with ground pads(plywood?).I'm hoping Luke will post the next run of photos on that job as they show my preferred way of doing it,which worked very well.

Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on June 7, 2009 at 10:02am

Another option if the ground is soft is to use the Rule of Opposites.

One of the opposites is "If you can't lift, dig."

It's pretty swampy where I work, so I'm used to working in soft, muddy ground. Our answer is to carry a large quantity of cribbing. We can get the extra cribbing in play quicker than we can get a big wrecker to the scene here.

Permalink Reply by Asst Chief Tim Cook on June 7, 2009 at 7:54pm

Oh Gawd! MANUAL labor,hehe

Permalink Reply by Jared Lelaidier on June 8, 2009 at 12:33am

wow I just spent a weekend doing this type of rescue, but it wasnt as severe and none of the semi's had sleepers or pups on them.

Permalink Reply by Asst Chief Tim Cook on August 25, 2009 at 11:36am

Well the answer(in this case)was to block the fifth wheel and lift the front with a tow truck.If luke ever gets the time he can post the remaining pics showing the process.Fast and effective.End result was the end result.

Permalink Reply by Isaac Frazier on February 2, 2010 at 9:11pm

Request more manpower on the response and during dispatch ask for 1-2 rotators to lift...most of this operation will be based on the response of heavy wreckers in the area. If they respond quickly and get a quality lift the car can be winched out and then we are back to extrication by more "typical" means.

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