Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by chris carillo on September 2, 2008 at 10:16pm

hi, i am a firefighter from new york and we have made it a sog (standard operating proceedure) to take a double wrap on the post with a piece of webbing, seems safer than bumming. Also it allows us to operate two tools w/ our hurst simo pump

Permalink Reply by lutan1 on September 2, 2008 at 10:26pm

Thanks Chris for the reply- there still seems to be two minds over here about the practice of bumming.

I'm also not usre how old the video is that I've attahced to this discusison, so it could be from soem time ago. (Interesting mix of PPE in the video, but that's a whole different discussion!)

Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on September 3, 2008 at 11:06pm

I have done "thighing" which is almost the same, until I got whacked really good last year.

We have changed our procedures a bit, in that now we cut the hinges first before we cut the Nader pin. Cutting produces much less released energy than spreading.

Permalink Reply by lutan1 on September 5, 2008 at 4:54am

Let's not forget that some tools can't cut hinges, especially older models. There's still plenty of older units out there so they would still need to spread and pop hinges the old way...

Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on September 6, 2008 at 7:59pm

Lutan, you aren't talking about the old hand-powered Porta-power tools, are you? Boy that was all my department had in the late 1980s.

Our 1990s Amkus cutter would cut through hinges with no problem, and as I recall had only 7,000 pounds of cutting force. The newer offerings of course have several times that force.

Having gotten that off of my chest, I think the sawzall is great. We now carry two of them on our rescue pumper and use them frequently in concert with the hydraulic tools.

Permalink Reply by lutan1 on September 6, 2008 at 8:13pm

Lutan, you aren't talking about the old hand-powered Porta-power tools, are you? Boy that was all my department had in the late 1980s.
No, I'm talking more like the 1000 series Holmatro, etc.

Although rare, I know there are still departments using them, or similar. (My old dept. still keeps a set on a back up truck for the "what-if?" or "oh shit!" incident...)

Permalink Reply by Butch McCurdy on September 7, 2008 at 8:40pm

I have never seen this method. We teach the oppisite. the last extrication class i taught a student was standing in front of a door beeing spread. I stopped the class and had him move out of the way, the spread was continued and to door flew off and landed right where he was standing. The guy in the video looks pretty tough but dont think he is stronger than a set of spreaders. just my $ .02

Permalink Reply by daniel smith on September 24, 2008 at 9:44pm

That video is good example of how to hurt yourself on an incident. Never seen that particular method of restraining the door before. I guess as long as the firefighter has ample padding on his or her ass that breaking your pelvis or coccix wouldn't be much of an issue!

Permalink Reply by Fuzzy Carr on September 26, 2008 at 12:23pm

I did Extrication for all most 30 years. I never heard of "bumming or Thighing" Where would you find such training? Hopefully not in any training book. Let the tool do it's work and control the door. Your right gear is a hole nother discussion.

Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on October 1, 2008 at 5:24am

Why would you ever put yourself in the path of a heavy piece of metal that is being propelled by a tool that generates tons of force? Just keep everyone and all body parts out of the way. If you're worried about controlling explosive failures, there are several things you can do.

1) Start with the basics and manually unlock the door, even if it's jammed to the point you have to open it with the jaws. Unlocked doors open much more easily and gently than locked ones, even if you use a hydraulic spreader to do it.
2) Use good spreader techniques. That includes tunneling the tips until they are completely inside the car before opening them all the way. It also includes stopping and repositioning the tips if the spreader slips or if you start tearing the sheet metal prior to getting the tips all the way to the interior of the car.
3) Pay attention to the latch mechanism. If it's a single Nader pin, you can attack just above it and roll the latch off the pin. If it's the double mini-pin or staple-type latch, try attacking just below the latch mechanism to lift the latch off of the pins, then attacking above the latch to open the door.
4) If you're still afraid the door will fail explosively, tie it off with webbing and control it from a safe distance. The webbing will act as a shock absorber and help keep those shoulders from dislocating.

Most importantly, hydraulic spreaders commonly generate seven or eight tons of force. Unless you have a nine-ton ass, don't put it on a door that someone else is attacking with a hydraulic rescue tool.