Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jordan Hawkins on January 16, 2011 at 10:16am

The new yorker is only osha approved while the sam houston is nfpa approved. The houston has a interior "skull cap" for better protection. You can also tell a considerable weight difference between the two. Hope that helped

Permalink Reply by Ryan Chinn on January 16, 2011 at 12:33pm

yes definately thanks for the help!

Permalink Reply by SMOKEnPipesJim on January 16, 2011 at 8:33pm

actually Jordan Both the n5a (New Yorker) and n6a (SamHoustin) have skull caps but getting into the differance is the NFPA standard over the lesser Osha Standard I believe the skull cap is heavier duty on the n6a, then throw in some other issues such as eye protection... Generally speaking if you live in an NFPA State an "approved N5a" is as useful as an old school UNapproved 5a New Yorker...

Permalink Reply by Matthew LaRock on January 17, 2011 at 1:09am

I believe your right; however it is my understanding that the only reason why the New Yorker isn't NFPA approved is due to the fact that 1% of the helmets fail the penetration test. Therefore if you had 100 New Yorkers 99 of them would pass and be considered NFPA, but due to that 1 that didn't pass they don't get the NFPA approval.

Permalink Reply by Matthew Madairy on January 18, 2011 at 1:11am

keep in mind that the N6A is only NFPA if it does NOT have a natural finish (painted) AND is purchased with NFPA eye protection (for example, ESS Goggles). The NFPA claims that the clear coat on the natural finish burns off too easy. Remember that even if someone does purchase a fully compliant N6A, if they intentionally alter the helmet in any way, such as removing the rachet head band in the rear or flattening the brim with a heat gun, it is no longer compliant.

As for the weight, Jordan is correct. the N6A is considerably heavier than the N5A. The N5A also has a taller profile than the N6A

Permalink Reply by SMOKEnPipesJim on January 21, 2011 at 2:58am

its arbitrary... and actually quite assinine Considering Goggles are Moot when your Wearing your SCBA facepiece Like NFPA says, its the sam houston thats higher Profile after all everything has to eb bigger in texas ,, and Clear "Laquer" finish might burn off faster (IMAGINE that.... LMAO ) and Plain Paint is fire resistive... Thats right up there with Lets force Firefighters to wear NOrmex , because even though IT melts at a lower temperature, it will after all stop after you remove the open flame, while Cotton Duck wouldnt burn for another 50 degrees Higher , But would smolder unless you extinguished it with agent... IT was all a SCAM penitration was the test Cairns invented to get OUT of the Leather helmet biz all the labor intensive hand work, while MSA stamped out 12 -15 dollar TOPGuards 2000 an hour.... Course MSA go the last laugh now they own Cairns , Cairns is in The Bahamas and dont care...prolly laugh....


Matthew More then likely your NOT that far off from the truth NOW, but back when the n6a was brought out IT was definately heavieryly doodley ( lol) Fortified, and that made the whole crown huge & dumb looking LIKE way more bigger then like generation 1 n5a's ... what do you think The one in the pic is? Take a look and take a guess (35 years 2 5a's and 3 n5a's still got em all)

Permalink Reply by Matthew Madairy on January 21, 2011 at 11:33pm

I was just stating the fact that the N6A is only compliant when sold with the goggles and is painted. I agree that the goggles are useless with a facepiece on, but thats what the standard says.

Permalink Reply by David Earl Gregory on January 22, 2011 at 8:03pm

Say what you will, I don't like either of them. The old school helmets worked just fine until someone decided they needed a scam to keep their cushy job so the penetration test was conceived. (like that play on words huh?) I got hit with pretty much everything a firefighter can get hit with over the years and not one time did my N5 fail me. In my opinion, you get hit hard enough to penetrate that old leather, you've got a hell of a lot more to worry about than a knot on yer noggin. Now-a-days you got all that extra weight above the cervical spine and you take a lick hard enough to have caused penetration, figure in the inertial force and you're damn lucky to not break your friggin' neck. Oh but that's cool NFPA, it didn't go through the helmet it only broke his damn neck and now he's paraplegic. Kinda glad I'm not in it anymore.

Permalink Reply by SMOKEnPipesJim on February 27, 2011 at 12:50am

Ohh Matt I wasn't throwing a rocks at you my freind... Lol I was just refering to The "stupidity" of the whole standard which was written in a manner so that Cairns could stop making them all together and get into more lucrative turn out gear and stamp-em-out junk helmets

Permalink Reply by Patch on February 7, 2012 at 8:54am

Your 100% correct its all a scam we just implemented at my work wearing NFPA 1971 duty uniforms well I hate to say it but if i am in a fire hot enough to burn through my bunkers i find it hard to beleive a tee shirt and pants that are NFPA approved are going to make any real differance.

Permalink Reply by Paul Gillespie on February 16, 2014 at 9:24am

New to the group...but here it goes, hope youre still around. The Sam Houston (N6A) seems to have a higher brim on it (top of the helmet). Not sure if it does or not...I've not measured them. The N5A (New Yorker) at one time was the only one compliant with our almighty NFPA standards and the N6A was only OSHA compliant. Besides some small details they are pretty much the same helmet. the N6A has an extra layer of Kevlar for penetration protection that the N5A's don't have. I think now it has flip flopped and the N5A's are no longer compliant by the almighty NFPA standards but the N6A's are (N5A's are still OSHA compliant). So which ever one you go with, you should be fine. If somebody gives you lip about your N5A not being NFPA compliant: remind them that NFPA is merely a recommendation for a law and OSHA and ANSI are actual laws. NFPA can recommend whatever they want, that you can't have Bourke eye shields unless they meet NFPA standards, or an N5A helmet or...blah blah blah. If you meet OSHA and ANSI laws, youre good to go and the good ole NFPA can pack sand up their ass ;)

Permalink Reply by Zachary Wolf on March 28, 2014 at 10:27am

unfortunantly Paul there is one flaw in your reasoning about NFPA. If something were to happen what standards and guidelines do you think OSHA or ANSI look at?  When OSHA or ANSI do an investigation they look at industry guidelines and thats NFPA so whether or not its NFPA approved is still something to factor in. If you state or department has adopted NFPA equiptment guidelines as standard its a moot point. If your state has addopted them you have even less options.

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