Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Mike W. on January 28, 2008 at 7:26pm

Ranking career officer, career firefighter acting-up, senior career firefighter, ranking POC officer, senior POC engineer, senior POC firefighter.

Chief and Deputy Chief are career

Permalink Reply by Don Gesualdi on January 28, 2008 at 8:17pm

We are trying to remedy this! The control has to shift to the career side! it's getting a little crazy.

Permalink Reply by Mike W. on January 29, 2008 at 1:04am

Good luck. Sometimes it's easier to move a mountain. Whatever the case....stay safe and remember, Everybody Goes Home.

Permalink Reply by Don Gesualdi on January 29, 2008 at 4:32pm

Thanks bro.I think your right!

Permalink Reply by Don Gesualdi on January 31, 2008 at 6:34am

Some vols are very good at what they do! On that note if you don't get paid for it your not professional! When your taking orders from someone who doesn't make this their LIFE you have to wonder.

Permalink Reply by Engine 32 Capt. on May 26, 2008 at 12:25am

I work at a combination department, but our entire command staff is made up of career personnel. I hate to say it, but I think our career members would be hard pressed to take orders from a volunteer officer who only shows up for one or two drills per month and only makes a handful of runs a year. The level of experience just isn't the same...

Permalink Reply by Rich Ruehl on May 26, 2008 at 9:22pm

For me it has next to nothing to do with experience. I cannot argue that there are some very good volunteers out there; firefighters and officers. But when it comes to making decisions about what happens on accident scenes, fire grounds, even some significant and involved medical calls, I want to take my orders from a career officer. Why? It comes down to accountability for me. In our county (Howard County, MD - combination department) you will NEVER see a volunteer officer reprimanded for a poor decision. But let a career Lieutenant make the same mistake and they risk their livelihood; not their hobby (sorry, that's an overly simplistic way of saying it).

Yes, some volunteers are "called" to the fire service; I believe that! Got no problems admitting that. But there are just as many career firefighters that feel that this is what they were supposed to do with their lives; the difference being that they draw a paycheck to do it. I have seen, too many times, where volunteers show up from their short-order cook job and jump right on a pice of apparatus and take command over an outranked, seasoned career officer. I am sure that the volunteer officers' heart is in the right place. But I want to know that the officer whose orders I have to follow is going to held just as accountable as I will be in the end.

In Howard County volunteer chiefs OUTRANK career Battalion Chiefs. Just a couple of weeks ago, a BC with 32 years on the job stood on the sidelines as a volunteer chief had command of a working fire. Unacceptable! I have said many times that I don't care if the volunteers corporations have rank structures, and I don't care if they continue to decide their senior leadership by popularity vote or appointment. The fact is, they should only have operational control over THEIR volunteers and in their districts. Career personnel should be supervised by OTHER CAREER personnel.

I would have to look up my chain-of-command to make sure I got every nuance correct. I will do that and post it here.

Make no mistake; this is a political hot potato. If you find a politician willing to fight this battle of appropriateness with you, latch onto them, give them every bit of the $6000 PAC transfer you can, bust your ass for them during the campaign and stay tight with them.

Rich Ruehl, President
IAFF Local 2000
Howard County, MD

Permalink Reply by Engine 32 Capt. on May 28, 2008 at 12:28am

Well said and Good Luck. I don't envy the fact that volunteer Chiefs can make decisions for you. Here they're assigned tasks like accountability, and they can barely keep up with that.

There have been scenes where a volunteer battation chief showed up and assumed command, only for me (as the first due engine officer) to assume command away from him because I know he doesn't know what he's doing.

When you're in that situation, all you can do is stay safe and watch out for your Brothers. Be careful out there.

Permalink Reply by Jason on June 21, 2008 at 8:06am

your situation sounds similar to ours other than the chiefs. Our chief is a career chief and there are 3 vol asst chiefs. Paid captains are at the same level as vol asst chiefs

Permalink Reply by Don Gesualdi on June 22, 2008 at 6:33pm

We are working on it now, it's going to come down to certification. All of our career staf are very proffesional and responsible!!! It is OUR ASS if we screw up!