Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Anita on March 30, 2008 at 2:58pm

It is far more likely to have a Haz-Mat incident in your city or town than it is that a WMD incident. First responders will be the ones to take the brunt of either situation. I have seen Public Works, Police and sometimes FF's get into situations, like cleaning up spilled chemicals on the roadway before they even know what they are dealing with! Sometimes it is because the police want to open the roadway up to keep traffic moving.

In my area quailified haz-mat teams are at least an hour away, yet it is hard to get the chiefs in involved in creating haz-mat teams because they we have all volunteer departments and they are already over extended with insufficient manpower.

We have been lucky so far but I'm afraid the statistics will eventually catch up with us I just hope nobody gets seriously hurt because of lack of understanding haz-mat!

Permalink Reply by Bobby Shelton on March 30, 2008 at 4:11pm

You are right Anita!! The worry is not over WMD but over TICs (Toxic Industrial Chemicals) We have got to make Law Enforcement understand that it is our scene and that we will allow them to reopen thoroughfares when it is safe for EVERYONE and not out of convenience. The point you made about the time for "qualified" haz-mat team members responding is a perfect example of why line firefighters need to have a good working knowledge of what to do in those incidents no matter how few and far between. In the county I live in their is an all volunteer hazardous materials team as well as the fire dept. team I belong to, so it can be done if the powers that be want it to be done. But statistically time is not on your side and hopefully when the big incident happens there will be no tragic consequences

Permalink Reply by Anita on March 31, 2008 at 12:01am

One of the members of our local Emergency Management Association (a regional association of town emergency managers) is trying to put together a team for our region. He has asked each town to get 5 people for the team. I volunteered to be on it. Unfortunately, I have been deployed with FEMA much of the past year. I have only been home for two to four weeks, every month or two, and have not been able to follow through as I would have liked, but I am hopeful that the team is going to get started.

Permalink Reply by Bobby Shelton on March 31, 2008 at 6:17am

Well it's a start!! And every journey of a thousand miles... you know the rest

Permalink Reply by 2y0a1vey9p4zt on April 13, 2008 at 6:32pm

I personally feel that Hazmat suffers from the same basic problems as Firefighting in general. And that is a shrinking budget with an expanding mission. Hazmat is the fastest growing segment of the Fire Service, thanks largely in part to the War on Terror and media coverage in general. Everyday it seems there is a new gadget, test kit, or toy for the hazmat scene. But, without money, we can't get these toys to play with, or worse, get the qualified people in the numbers we need to handle the situation where the toys can be used.

Permalink Reply by Anita on April 14, 2008 at 7:57am

I agree! So now I will say in a long drawn out fashion what you said simply and eloquently!
I took a WMD technician level on how to use all those toys and all those test kits once! There is NO department near me that:
1) has any other personnel trained
2) has the equipment
3) has SOP in place to do anything but call the State National Guard for an incident.
So why did homeland security spend so much money to train me when they are not going to use me? It was interesting and was useful to me ( my day job at the time was taking environmental samples) but couldn't the money been used more usefully elsewhere. We have boxes from DHS of class C suits, Millinum masks and CBRN filters and no trained personnel. I bought one of those masks before the Town received them and the mask alone was $250 the filter as much.
Our Fire Department is strapped just to get enough volunteers for firefighting and rescue, haz-mat overwhelms them. I have also seen our FF's go into potentially unsafe situations because getting a response from qualified personnel would take so long that they would rather take the risk then wait around for help. I don't know what the answer is, but thanks to people like Bobby, I hope awareness of the problem will be the first step in getting personnel interested in forming Haz-mat teams!

Permalink Reply by 2y0a1vey9p4zt on April 14, 2008 at 10:39am

Take your situation a step further. Here we have a team, with a lot of gadgets and such, and several qualified people to use them. But, there is zero support for the team as far as training on the equipment. There are about 20 or so techs on our team, but only 2 or 3 get the "privlege" of opening the team's trailer and working with the equipment in there.

Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on August 25, 2008 at 9:21pm

It's all bad stuff but the question I pose for you and this group is can you take care of one of your own should he/ she become accidentally exposed to a TIC? I agree about the WMD issues and for all of us who have gone through the training, dirty bomb scenarios, or messing with Cl2 or NH3 will probably be the key issues that we are faced with as far as exposure.

Did you know that reportedly a few years back that the biggest user for the Florida Orange County Fire Toxmedics was the customs drug dogs who got a noseful of cyanide when looking for cocaine. The dogs go down and they dispatch hazmat to respond. They administer the correct antidote, the dog lives and everyone is happy. Except me... Just why do drug DOGS get better care than firefighters who are on hazmat teams? Having these antidotes and the training to be able to recognize exposures is to me the most significant issue facing us hazmatters...

I am collecting information on the Toxmedic programs across the country and placing this information on my FFN group site called Hazmat WMD Responders. If anyone has any input, please share.

As always, stay safe! Mike from Santa Barbara