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When Is It Vacant, Abandoned or Unoccupied?
There has been a lot of discussion about vacant, abandoned and unoccupied buildings.
The reason is that there are differing schools of thought on the amount of risk that is applied, our moral/ethical obligation to know with some certainty that no one is inside and to fulfill our mission and commitment to the public we serve.
So when is a building, you know...vacant, abandoned or unoccupied?
Here is an interesting NFPA report just released.
http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/OS.VacantBuildings.pdf
The reason is that there are differing schools of thought on the amount of risk that is applied, our moral/ethical obligation to know with some certainty that no one is inside and to fulfill our mission and commitment to the public we serve.
So when is a building, you know...vacant, abandoned or unoccupied?
Here is an interesting NFPA report just released.
http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/OS.VacantBuildings.pdf
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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As a front line Firefighter....I would have to say it is "unoccupied" or "abandoned" when the IC says it is...it is not my place to make that call....
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Permalink Reply by Mick Shelley on
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Paul, you know what the word assume means,
or what it could mean, but I will agree with you,
once the IC says it is unoccupied, or abandoned
the fault of a death will fall on his shoulders, not
yours, or mine.
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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Who's to say that the "death" wasn't already DEAD when you arrived?
If we don't watch ourselves, fire departments will be charged with manslaughter if we don't get them out or die trying.
We have to make sure that expectations support the mission.
Art
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Your right Chief, and we must keep in the back our mind,
that every case is different however. Is it a small fire, or a
large involved fire. Can it be determined how far long is the
fire, and what are the chances of someone surviving under
the conditions upon arrival.
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So, would we be using empirical data (survivability under heavy fireload) or would we be "going with the gut"?
When will it be rescue vs. recovery?
Art
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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on
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Seems to me that a fair number of LODDs have occurred after the owner/occupant has made it known (to the IC, or dispatcher) that everyone is out of the building. Sometimes the word reaches the troops, sometimes not.
So the question is: if a person on scene says they live in the now unoccupied building and they know for a fact that everyone is out, do we assume they are lying and go in just because WE have to see it's empty?
As far as vacant and abandoned buildings, it is important to know your district and the buildings in it. In urban areas it's known that the homeless frequently inhabit vacant/abandoned buildings so judgment based on conditions has to be applied.
In my area, vacant or abandoned buildings are likely to be inhabited by feral cats, rodents, etc. but not by humans.
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Chief, I always go with my gut, if rescue is not possable, them I would
need to go to recovery. However if you are asking me what I would do
under a heavy fireload, it would be recovery mode.
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Permalink Reply by Kenneth Holley on
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You must never assume that a building is vacant untill a complete search is done.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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The question isn't if the building is vacant, it's "Is the building vacant of viable victims?" If the fire conditions are so heavy that unprotected victims can't survive, then there's no point in risking firefighters to search it.
If the structure is collapsing, the victims aren't savable, no matter how loud they're screaming.
If we don't have the resources on scene to affect a rescue, then the rescue simply isn't possible.
Sometimes it's about 1st Due Arithmetic ...if you don't have the numbers to do the job, then the job isn't going to get done...or at least it's not going to get done quickly.
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I hear a lot of "what ifs"....But as I stated and stand by....If the IC states it is vacant then it IS vacant (as far as we are concerned)....HE is the one that tells us to conduct a search or to not enter the structure....Like it or not...the call is His/Hers not mine......Stay safe....Keept he Faith....Paul
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The problem with vacant buildings is that most of them really are vacant...until we put firefighters inside them.
The list of firefighters killed while searching or stretching lines in "vacant" buildings is a terribly, terribly long one.
Ask Detroit FD about their philosophy about offensive attacks in "vacant" buildings.
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