The Social Network & Community JUST for Firefighters
We are all professionals.... Yeah right
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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I guess if a person could wear the firefighter dick shirt -or any along the same line- in front of their mother or grandmother, aunt, young daughter, or let their daughter or son wear the shirt, then I guess it would indeed be okay. I guess it's all about standards and class, either you have some, or you don't.
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Permalink Reply by Richard Armstrong on
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Oh there's my good friend Jack!It's in my opinion not about class or standards it's about my right to wear what I choose as my grandfather fought in the war for me to be able to do.What I'm trying to say is some would laugh and some would turn away and grumble about the shirt the same way some like tattoos and some find them discusting.Like I said not everyone likes the same things in life or has the same sense of humor or has the same levels of tolorance for certain shirts ,tatoos hunting whatever I could type here there are people who love it or hate it.I'm quite sure if I knew you personally Jack I could probably find a 100 things about you that I could pick you apart about as you probably could with me so if a person wants to wear the shirt it's not for you or anyone to bad mouth him.
And for people to think that wearing this shirt is smearing the good firefighter name then I would have to say your wrong the things that smear the name are the one's who go out and start fires or drink and drive and get in an accident and kill someone.These are the guys that put our reputations under the microscope not buddy wearing a T-shirt.
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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Richard, I started the thread therefore I do have a right to comment on the replies, as I generated the discussion. You see, in one aspect you are correct, you do have the right to wear what you want to wear as a person.
But, what we wear in relation to the service is all about the preception of the content. That preception, not just improper actions (that smear our name) Preception of the public eye is what ultimately affects our services. That could include, loss of trust (foundation of the public serverant, firefighter) or even funding in these critical times.
I honestly have not seen too many police shirts with a similar depiction... of let's say Officer Dick.
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FETC I do see your point but to me everybody worries about the public eye and its a shame that the public would take a shirt like that for instance and run with it as far as saying a firefighter dick shirt means that we don't know what we are doing on the job.It looks to me that you have to ya know maybe have bible study out on the pad in front of the hall and you can't have a smoke or bottle of beer to make sure that the public thinks that you know how to put out a fire.Kind of a crock.If the public knew their guys they would know that having a beer or wearing a shirt does not mean they should worry about whether or not we can save their life if the time came.
If these things were going on in the hall (i.e. wearing a firefighter dick shirt while a class of school kids were touring your firehall) then yes definatly an issue but cuttin the lawn at home on the weekend or on vacation somewhere then there should not be a problem in my eyes.I detest people telling me that I'm a fire fighter and that this is the only way I should act because there is some unwritin law in a book somewhere that this is the criteria you have to follow to represent the fire service.I would put the rest of my paycheques that I make for the rest of my life that there is not one person on FFN that doesn't do something that pisses someone of but in reallity you would hope that common sense would prevail so that they would realize that wearing a shirt doesnt mean I cannot save their life.I mean you have priests diddling little kids and people still keep their religious faith so I would hope me waering a shirt and drinking a beer on my lawnmower would not break their faith in me as a firefighter
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I would love to conduct a little poll of the public and ask them there thoughts.I will do one in my hometown when I get a chance and post my results!
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We have made an aggressive move away from the social club mentality of two decades ago. It wasn't easy and many feelings were hurt by some members who enjoyed the social club more than work. But in doing so it is now a professional place of employment.
And yes we have policies of no alcohol in the station, no alcohol in your system during call back responses or reporting for duty, no smoking in the station, no smoking at the fire scene, we have a no smoking policy on city property to include trucks, no wearing uniforms off duty, no wearing your department t-shirt at a side job (like mowing) preception is your department is in the lawn business, no going to food/drink establishments while wearing any department logo.
We have many on the department who do not drink at all. We are reminded about public image and preception all the time. Whether it is going for lunch in an engine to hanging around out front and not staying busy. Most professional departments around me, paid or volunteer, have very similiar regulations.
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We have similar polices also.Yrs ago it was a social club were the guys all met at the hall on Sundays and played cards and shot the bull and washed the trucks.This was before I was a firefighter and I've heard alot of the old timers say that is when alot of the comradery was lost because they were told that it didn't look good.I agree and disagree because I know that if they are sitting around playin cards and if they had a couple beers big deal it wouldn't bother me or alot of people I know one bit.Now if I seen them stagger to the truck or a pile of bottles layin around I would definatly question it but I still would not think that on Monday they couldn't do their job.
It's a matter of opinion.I will go to a call if I've had a couple beers while doing yardwork but I will not go to a call if I'm at a friends house drinkin and had a few.I know their is a difference between full time and Voluteer because while your on duty their isn't access to alcohol and their isn't at my hall either and it lies in the hands of the firefighter to show some sort of resposibility.Can't leave the hall with uniform on and get hammered and then take the uniform of and run around naked cause that would raise some eyebrows.There was a big contraversy about a fulltime department around my area that had a calander made and guys didn't have shirts on just their bunker pants and the girls had bikini tops on with their pants.Who frickin cares really!?!? The proceeds were going to a charity and if people buy em cause they like firefighters in pants and no shirt or bikini tops then so be it if you don't then don't buy the flippin calender.Society pisses me of and I hate bowing down to the few that don't like something.Just once I wish someone would grow some kahoonas and stand up to the idiots on the planet.
Rules are rules and you follow them.But when I'm not on duty as a fireman then i'm on m y rules and know the limits of good and bad and if I do something in a grey area then I would hope that people use their heads and relize I'm human and that I can do my job regardless.
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Richard,
You seem to have a double standard about what is and is not acceptable:
"i.e. wearing a firefighter dick shirt while a class of school kids were touring your firehall) then yes definatly an issue but cuttin the lawn at home on the weekend or on vacation somewhere then there should not be a problem in my eyes"
So it would be okay to wear that shirt and let neighborhood children see it, or someone's children while you're on vacation...just NOT when a school group is touring the fire house?
See, that's the problem. if you feel there are times and places that those kinds of shirts are inappropriate then maybe you shouldn't be wearing them. This has nothing to do with humor, nothing to do with being a firefighter and nothing to do with being politically correct, it does have to do with being appropriate.
So Richard, would you find it appropriate to let your 9 year old son wear that shirt to school? If NOT, why not?
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Couple of beers while doing yardwork and still respond? Here is a recent story that has lawsuit written all over it...
http://firegeezer.com/2010/05/25/job-security/
Thing is, what do you think the public preception is of that organization as a whole? What about the next time they are seen at the local pub with a FD t-shirt on? What about a known member wearing firefighter dick t-shirt.
The fire service was given the public's trust, enter without consent or warrant, without fear of arrest, to come and provide help not hurt, and some continue to drop the ball.
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Jack I'm not double standard here.If I'm walking down the street with this on I'm not going to stop and pause to let kids read it I would not let my little kid wear it to school because it is an adult shirt and would not purposly expose kids to it.If I took my kids to a birthday party I would not wear it cause kids have time to focus on it and read the shirt.This kind of stuff is so readily available on the internet and T.V. that some kids have been exposed to it at sometime or another and to correct you it is about being a firefighter because FETC started the post about being a professional and how this shirt and others smeared the good firefighter name.
There is a time and a place for it and as I said common sense has to be used.It's like you don't wear an AC/DC highway to hell shirt to church on Sunday but when you get home and put it on and crank it up on the stereo.Best way I can describe to you what I'm trying to say Jack!!
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Permalink Reply by Ted C Hall on
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It's in pretty poor taste no matter where it's worn. I can't even think of a place it would be suitable outside of using it for a nightshirt IF your significant other had a great sense of humor...
I'm in a volunteer company and our community backs us 100%...
Wearing that shirt in public would get our Chief (who was born and raised here in Florence so everyone feels free to call him personally, especially the older folks who watched him grow up...) so many phone calls that we'd be having a hearing before the full Fire Board on what disciplinary action to take the next day.
We do have a few firefighters with lights, (discretely mounted as window units, or in the grills/existing light assemblies) and they're mostly used when we put one engine on an accident and use two or three POVs to guide traffic. (we do have enough engines to block and control the 4-lane highway running through town, but going POV can be quite a bit faster in getting EMT's on scene in time for the victims)
Our wanna-be tolerance is kinda low... We've typically got crews and engines working wildfires in up to five states every summer that our valley isn't on fire... and they're pretty solid.
That shirt just wouldn't fly here, the firefighters WOULD laugh at the cartoon, we're not all that prudish about things... but then they'd tell the a-hat wearing it "Very funny, now take it off and put it away... or turn in your gear!"
We don't vote people off the island as a matter of routine, but we depend on our community for support as much as they depend on us for Fire/Rescue/EMS response!
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We don't have any controversy about alcohol in the station. We are located on "permanently leased" school property where it's prohibited by state law. No Smoking in the station is automatic for the same reason...
We do bring our musical instruments for band practice, get out on Saturday to do truck checks, write burning permits, and be there for community members who want to talk with us or tour the Fire Station (just built last year after the 50 year old station on the same lot was finally condemned.)
We also have scheduled training days, community events, our Fire Cadet program. and public safety training keeping the fire hall pretty well scheduled and put to good use.
There's a rec room upstairs that will hopefully have some bunk cubbies in the near future so that firefighters like me can come down and sleep at the station occasionally to be able to respond...
My house is only 700 feet higher in altitude than the station, but that's 9.5 miles by road some of which is paved
I'm usually there to recover and rehab when a call comes in while I'm at my ranch... and I'm not living the farthest from the station.
Our volunteer company still typically averages an 8 person response...
The guys like me that are self-employed and working in district can usually just drop their tools to come in...
Our customers understand and seem to be pretty patient when we take a couple hours off to work a call... after all we're THEIR Fire Department and we are involved in community events often enough that they know it!
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