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I am sure that about 80% of the people went the other way with this title....EXACTLY my point...I have noticed that there seems to be two types of people in the Fireservice today...Those that will attend any and all training available and then there are those that figure they know it all and attend none....some have the attitude that "Hey, I'm certified, I don't need anything else I have been doing this for years." I see "veteran" or "senior" firefighters that skip monthly training and work details....I want to ask why...? Is it laziness...? Is it apathy..? Or are they fooling themselves into believing that they don't need it..?? Looking for any and all input....please do it early....I have training tonight......LOL Paul
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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Every profession has some requirement for updating or continuing their skills, be it conferences, seminars or training. Even trades have to stay updated with regard to new building codes, product changes, new material/techniques, styles and trends. You can't stay locked into what you originally learned.
The fire service is no longer, or not just about putting out fires. Any department that does EMS knows that those very particular skill sets have to be both maintained and updated. The same is true for the bread and butter working fires, however few and far apart they may be. With new building materials and techniques, they aren't your father's fires anymore.
Vehicle extrications are no longer cut and rip, it's becoming more of a fine art requiring a lot of finesse and expertise. Electric, hybrid and alternate fuel vehicles are on our roads. Who wouldn't want to know the safest, best and quickest methods to extricate? And with additional SSR's throughout a vehicle greater knowledge is required before the first cut or spread is made.
Haz-Mat is a very specific skill set as are trench, high-angle and swift water rescues. Throw in WMD/terrorism training and it becomes a never ending process of on-going education.
What I would suggest is, put together a 100 multiple choice/short essay answer test covering all that you do in your area. Let those that think they know it all challenge the training by taking the test. The test shouldn't be designed to fail but should challenge a person's knowledge and skills. If they choose not to challenge and still don't show up for training, fire their ass, they've become a liability. And I'm in a good mood today.
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Permalink Reply by Rusty Mancini on
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Paul, Not long ago I presented a topic to our members called "Striving to learn or the Stale category" and I too started to have some of the same thoughts. It seems like once a member obtains his or her interior cert., that's about as far as they go.
Sometimes we see the attitude of some that feel and voice that, hey man I'm certified and I know it all, and I really don't have to go any farther with any other training or certs.
I posted this discussion in my departments group on this site.
Feel free to read the topic, and you will also notice that their wasn't many that replied to it.
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Permalink Reply by Derek R. on
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And that's what separates those that can and those that do. Those that are content being where they are and those that strive to be better. I really like Jack's idea of a mini test. Although, i would like to see all members take it every so often to see where they are strong or weak in their knowledge. That way, they know what they need to do.
I have seen it too, that once they have a FF1 or 2 cert., they seem to slack off. But,damn, I don't understand why; with all the changes taking place. There's so much more we need to be knowledgable and aware of in the fire service today as opposed to yesterday.
I wish I knew how to remedy this problem, and if anyone figures it out, please let me know. I have 5 years in and still see myself as a rookie because there's so much to learn out here, and dammit, I'm taking every training opportunity I can to be a smarter, safer firefighter. And to me, it's hard to understand why some don't have that mindset.
Sorry 'bout that, I may have gone off topic a bit. Have fun at your training.
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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With you man...I am about the same...about 5 years in Fire...and about 33 years of EMS....(Old shit ain't I...? LOL) I have attended everything I can...I am now in Fire Officer I (Why I'm not sure, I don't want that responsibility)....and yes, it can be both interesting and enjoyable...if you make it that way......Paul......Hey guys thanks for responding....I knew the title would scare people off......LOL
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Permalink Reply by Matthew Powers on
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Paul from your profile I see that you are no stranger to a class room! Keep in mind that not everybody feels so comfortable learning in this environment. FFI/II are great trainings because there is a lot of action in certain parts. Some look at this as dealing with the BS to get to the action.
I do training for my department and I find that even though half of our call volume is EMS related, I can not hold the mens attention for long when teaching or reviewing EMS items. This is understandable, most signed up to work the fire ground. The modern fire department is more diverse then what our grandfathers did. Specializing tasks, and skill sets puts quite a burden on the attention span for those that want to help, but look at non-traditional functions as unimportant to them.
You may want to speak to your officers, or consider yourself, only allowing recruits that are willing to take on all of the functions of the modern fire service. I find it hard to blame a guy that has worked for 20 years in the fire service for not wanting to deal with HazMat. This is a particular subset of knowledge that needs sharp skills and commitment to lifelong learning. At the same time, HazMat is here to stay and the new guys need to recognize this. If this is the path for them, they should be well informed of the duties before they commit to your departments coffers for initial training monies.
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Permalink Reply by Barbara Nelson on
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It could be any of those and I would like to add, maybe there chain of command letting them slide by or not pressuring them to go beyond the basics. Right or wrong the way I feel is the more I know the safer my crew and I will be so I take as much outside training I can get, but you also need the practical experince to back the training up. Certs in a book won't keep you safe either if you don't practice what you have learned.
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Permalink Reply by Jason on
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Jack, we have had the SAME issue the past few years. Mostly our largest issue over anything is that we have pretty much two different groups at the fire dept, 1. been in it for 20+ years and some of our core guys(the guys you want to learn from) are in that cat. but they are seeing the end of the run and looking more to becoming firehouse crew or retiring and more "specific" training is not there thing and even if not pushed to do the annual re-certs they won't worry about it. 2. The younger gen(where I fall in) and guys that want to LIVE, EAT and BREATH this stuff and it doesn't matter what the weather is like we want to train, and will try to make any outside training we can.
But somtimes its like pulling teeth to get some guys to take trucks out..and it really drives me nuts when they are like well its cold out or its raining a bit...My reply, "Do we only get calls on nice sunny and 60 days?" And at the same time, when we do get to a scene alot of basics are skiped or forgotten. BASICS BASICS BASICS Then will even get the "There aint anything we can do"...there are HUNDREDS of desktop or "inside" drills that can be done.
Venting as well.
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Permalink Reply by John Rulli Jr. on
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I believe they are afraid of failure
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Permalink Reply by J. D. Rinard on
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As training officer at my department I find it hard to come up with exciting ways to present training to my brothers. If any of you have any please share. As this discussion talks about I too have the problem with 100% participation in drills. I have been doing a lot of research on training but no real "fun" ways to train and keep interest. It should be all our desire to train and keep sharp. Little story that proves this, ...
We just added a probie to our line-up and I was going over the basics of SCBA's and how to don and doff. I am so used to putting SCBA on in the truck that when i showed him the technique of over the head I got it upsidedown and had to think ,"now how does this go?" So there we all need it even the trainers.
Be trainable and stay safe out there,
J.D.
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J.D. Have you ever tried the "playground" or the "Auditorium" drills...? Playground...full PPE, blacked out mask....run a line (rope) over, under around and through the play items there and have the people follow the line...ever tried going UP a slide with turn-out gear on...? LOL Plus the mulch that is on the ground works as a safety item for you...or go to your local school and try and do a search of the auditorium...have to count the rows and the seats to figure out where you left off and report off to the next team on where to pick it up....you would be surprised how difficult this can be.......you did ask for ideas didn't you...? LOL Paul
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Permalink Reply by Norm Tindell on
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I'm relatively new at the training position and the guys are telling me they want variety, so I'll do a powerpoint now and then and a life-like scenario occasionally and a lot of hands-on stuff to try to keep it interesting. I keep tabs on the "older" and more experienced guys by simply asking for their opinion every chance I get. That's how I know how "in tune" they are with what we're doing. Now I'm also assigning various members to come up with their own drills. We call them "Keep It Simple Drills."
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Permalink Reply by Tom Wheland on
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I have been in the Brotherhood almost 33 years now and my belief on training is simple. Soak up every last little bit of training you can get. I have other firefighters ask me all the time why I take something I am already certified in. I tell them 2 reasons - 1 is to stay as sharp as I can in this business which everyone should! 2 because you never know when something new and better might be implemented like a certain way to preform something, new equipment and etc.
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