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The Ladder Rack Discussion
Props to Jason Hoevalmann at A Firefighter's Own Worst Enemy for a great blog post on positioning engine company rigs and hoselines in a way that lets us quickly access the ladders and to throw them early and often. I'd recommend that you read the linked blog before replying here so you're familiar with the points that Jason made.
We all have to work with the ladder racks we have on our rigs, but there are a couple of things I'd like to add to Jason's ideas.
The first is that if you have hydraulic or electric ladder racks, when the rack is down it blocks access to all of the compartments on that side of the rig. Once the crew removes the ladders, the driver should raise the rack back to the "road" position as soon as possible.
My other point is that while it requires some advance planning, a through-the-tank ladder rack with a rear access door can be the most efficient, least costly, and easiest access of any kind of ladder retention system you'll find on a pumper. It doesn't require individual cable clamps to hold the ladders to the rack, it doesn't require a powered rack, and it keeps the ladders out of the way when not in use. This system requires that the ladder rack be located beside the main hose beds and rear preconnect discharges, not below them. That prevents the problem with hoselines blocking access to the ladders that Jason describes. If also allows good access to the ladders in narrow streets or alleys where a hydraulic ladder rack might not have adequate space to deploy alongside the rig.
An example of a through-the-tank, rear access ladder rack that will not interfere with hose deployment or vice versa are the Crimson/Spartan engines operated by my department. Our apparatus committee and our Support Services chief did a great job on this design.
The only hose above the ladder rack is small amount of 2.5 inch intended for standpipe/FDC hookups. Even the 5-inch rear intake doesn't interfere with deploying the ladders from the rack directly above it.
The only way the rear ladder rack will be blocked is if another rig parks too close behind it. Drivers who pay attention will prevent that problem as will officers that are observant enough to catch and correct a driver who makes this kind of basic mistake..
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jason Hoevelmann on
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Ben, those are great points and I agree with the through the tank concept, if it is designed appropriately like you mention. It's all about planning and the description you provide is an excellent example of why to keep operations in mind when designing your trucks. Thanks for the comments, you always bring some great insight and information to these conversations, thanks again.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Harkey on
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We started our design with a hydraulic rack in mind, the change came after talking with other departments who had them in areas simular to ours. We have narrow streets that have a lot of trees. The concern was with the trees being low, the ladders and rack would be in harms way if or should I say when we hit them. I have no regrets with the through the tank design we went with. I'm shure there are places the ladder racks would be great in, just not ours.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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That's a very similar design to our ladder/hook rack. I'll post a photo of one of our racks with the door open if I can find one.
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I found a photo from when we first got the truck, it shows the location better. The rear discharge on the left side is now preconnented with a 21/2. Above the ladders is supply line, so it will not be much of a factor, as far as getting in the way of the ladders.
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Permalink Reply by Andy Turnham on
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Have you seen how they stow ladders across the pond? They are on sliders mounted on top of the pumper deck and are accessed from the rear. The ladders are on manual sliders which pivot up and slide the ladder down in a convenient position for use. This doesn'tobstruct anything and requires no preperations (like laying out gear that might be needed from obstructed lockers).
That big ladder where the hose deck should be? That's a 45' extension ladder, they carry hose rolled up in side lockers. - Attachments:
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Uk appliance.jpg, 141 KB
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Have you seen how they stow ladders across the pond? They are on sliders mounted on top of the pumper deck and are accessed from the rear. The ladders are on manual sliders which pivot up and slide the ladder down in a convenient position for use. This doesn'tobstruct anything and requires no preperations (like laying out gear that might be needed from obstructed lockers).
That big ladder where the hose deck should be? That's a 45' extension ladder, they carry hose rolled up in side lockers.
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Have you seen how they stow ladders across the pond? They are on sliders mounted on top of the pumper deck and are accessed from the rear. The ladders are on manual sliders which pivot up and slide the ladder down in a convenient position for use. This doesn'tobstruct anything and requires no preperations (like laying out gear that might be needed from obstructed lockers).
That big ladder where the hose deck should be? That's a 45' extension ladder, they carry hose rolled up in side lockers.
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Permalink Reply by joemac on
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The trouble I see with the rear access to ladders is that the ladder length is then limited by the dimensions of the enclosure. In other words, it has to fit inside. The old, conventional mounting allowed for some overhang of the ladder, which meant that longer ladders could be mounted in a shorter span.
Personally, I see nothing wrong with the old way of mounting ladders. They were right there, not limited by cabinet length, and they weren't hampered by open lockers or hose connections.
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Permalink Reply by NOVAFireman on
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Unfortunately, our engine at work has a ladder rack. It's had malfunction, after malfunction both on scene and during morning apparatus checks. This has gone on for the past two years.
Although we are a 100% career firehouse (building owned, operated, and staffed by the county), the engine was purchased, not really spec'ed, and is maintained by a separate volunteer fire department who is at a different fire station. It's complicated.
I prefer to have the old style, low mounted ladder racks on the officer's side of the engine. This has worked for years, and we have always been able to get our ladders off.
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Old school ladder racks take up a lot of space for tools and equipment that are carried by modern, all-hazards fire departments.
Note the "Paramedic Engine" designation on the engine in the photo above as one example of this need.
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Like most things in the fire service, it isn't for everyone. We are an all hazards FD, minus medic engines, but don't need to load up a engines with every tool under the sun.
Our engines carry basic engine company items such as lots of hose, fittings, appliances, hand tools, etc. We put all the other stuff on medics, heavy rescues, and ladder trucks.
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