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Permalink Reply by FETC on December 16, 2009 at 4:04pm

Crickets.....

chirp chirp chirp

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Permalink Reply by THOMAS on December 17, 2009 at 12:10am

Good for the city council!! I know this situation on a first hand basis. We had the same problem about 8 years ago. When you get young people together and boredom sets in things start to happen. Although it was not that bad at our station, horse playing and unauthorized personnel at the station. (Security cameras in all areas except living quarters) the big problem was complaints from the community. As the Deputy Chief I Imposed gridlines on when personnel could be at the station. anyone under the age of 18 could not be there after 10PM unless it was approved by a chief officer. We had no problems with this rule after about two weeks. And it is still in effect.

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Permalink Reply by Luke Summers on December 18, 2009 at 10:03pm

Im Really not sure where i stand on this issue, Im not really sure why the word "loafing" was used by a council member. Tell me in a Volunteer Department is it really a bad thing if firefighters want to "hang out" at the fire station at night, past what some believe is "late". Now if there are juniors, cadets whatever you want to call them thats fine to impose a curfew, they are under age,need to go to school,etc. But imposing this on the department as a whole just seems a little over board. Now We may not know the whole story,which is fine but alot of the comments have been in favor of a curfew.

I have been on my dept for 5 years, some of which was spent as a cadet. We had a curfew on school nights. However on weekends,during the summer and nights when there is no school the next day we were allowed there at anytime. The city had a curfew but if we were down there for a legitimate reason it was alright. Now for the rest of the firefighters as a whole: Why impose a curfew period...I can tell you after working almost straight nights at my full time job for over a year, i never slept at night because i was in a routine,i would go to the station to fix equipment,do odd jobs and you know sometimes another firefigher or two would show up and we would play pool,watch tv or shoot the breeze. I Guess i just dont see the problem with that.

If there is a problem with certain groups, then deal with them, remove the privilage of those individuals but dont punish the rest of the group, i agree with the deputy chief in the matter it does hurt moral, telling firefighters they cant spend time at a place they love, at their second home hurts.

In my department we can actually bring non fire deparment personel in to play pool and such, we do have some pretty strict rules in place but its just common sense. It just seems to me that these days people are running out of things to complain about so they pick trivial items that do no more than hurt the moral of the employees and or volunteers.

My other question is why does the city council even have anything to do with this decision in a volunteer department. They are not paying these people by the hour to hang out at the station, they are doing it on their own time.

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Permalink Reply by FETC on December 19, 2009 at 9:55pm

Luke,

I agree with most of which you say except for your last paragraph. That statement sums up what many feel in the volunteer world is "nobody else's business". Obviously most don't understand the liabilities town fathers consider regardless if you are just a volunteer dept. You see, many organizations, paid or vollie have curfews to reduce illegal activities. Hanging out and watching movies can be done at home..... oh wait people want to "hang" at the FD with other non-members for lack of a better word (privacy) Lack of policies and members running wild without boundaries can lead to a BIG BLACK EYE with the townspeople (the one's who we try to instill the greatest trust with) Even the PD can't enter a mans home without a warrant but we the fire service still can in our duty to act on behalf of the public. That is a big example of supreme trust.

The fact that department management may or may not have been handling a potential situation, justifies that intervention before the municipality is affected.

Even volunteers should be considered as employees, and yes you can be fired. Volunteer organizations should better start managing themselves as professional services otherwise they may find themselves on the other end of a hefty lawsuit and the term "volunteer" affords very little protection in a court of law.

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Permalink Reply by Luke Summers on December 20, 2009 at 12:34am

Well my first line said i wasnt sure where i stood on the issue. Now it may be different from state to state how volunteer depts are managed. From what your saying there is a stark difference where im at with laws regarding volunteer departments.

I understand we should consider ourselves employees, my point was if there are firefighters engaging in illegal activities then they should be dealt with, the whole department should no suffer from the actions of a few members. Trust me we have had some activity here, but it was dealt with. Its really sad when you cant even trust your firefighters anymore, as for boundries we do have those, you cross out of the line and you get punished. I just dont think its wise to punish the whole department to something a few others did, thats happened here and it caused us to be short handed for awhile because of morale issues.

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