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Permalink Reply by Emily Coonradt on April 9, 2012 at 9:55pm

1. I think the world would probable go to hell in a handbasket if there were no firefighters around at first but i think soon people would learn how to stop fires on their own and quickly learn what not to do to stop the rapid spread of fires.

2. I think we should focus on the houses in forested areas and allow the fire to burn up any underbrush so as not to have as much fuel for future fires and also so there is something to help to replenish the earth.

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Permalink Reply by Noah Harms on April 9, 2012 at 9:58pm

My thoughts exactly of your #2

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Permalink Reply by Marc Hansen on April 9, 2012 at 11:10pm

1) something I learned early on.... all fires go out and all bleeding stops, eventually! without firefighters the world would still turn, sun would still come up, just on a much warmer and probably smokier landscape.

2)with no expierence in big brush fires I'll leave that decisions to others

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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on April 9, 2012 at 11:52pm

So you have a 10 page research paper and you are limiting your research to these two very basic, simplistic questions? What else are you looking to research on or moreso to report on? As you can see, your questions were answered quite easily and barely consisted of a paragraph, let alone 10 pages. That to me says there should be something more in which you should be seeking and to expand your project.

 

If FFs weren't around?

 

In all honesty, this is not a realistic question. It doesn't matter if actual FFs weren't around, but realistically there will ALWAYS be firefighters around. They may have other jobs, they may have limited equipment, they may have limited tools, but there is an inherent aspect in humans to help and do "something" for the most part. Matter of fact, there was a time there were no firefighters in the realm to which we know them today, going back to the caveman....but yet he learned fire could be destructive and found how to control and limit it. Going back to ancient Rome, there really weren't FF's per se, but soldiers started to take on such roles. St Florian (Patron saint of FFs) was a Roman Soldier.

 

Throughout time, the danger of fire became more prevalent as populations increased and structures started being built closer together and so forth. We started to see ordinary folks take on more active roles in the community to protect the public from fire and even security dangers....such as a night watchman, etc. Later on we started seeing more laws and rules to help protect against fires, in early America, it was required of every homeowner to have a bucket to be able to respond for a bucket brigade. Yet despite these archaic attempts at fire protection, there were numerous limitations. You then started seeing people becoming more innovative and dedicated to fire protection and started seeing volunteer fire depts. Up to this point there is a huge amount of history where there really wasn't firefighters in the modern sense of the term, yet there were people who filled the role.

 

So realistically, if there were no FFs around today, it would just be a modern day world of the days before an organized fire dept. You would still have people turning out to help and seeing people trying to protect their property. Realistically, the reason you DO see firefighters today and even moreso why you pay firefighters today as a career, is because personal lives started to stretch beyond the capabilities of what an individual could do. Instead of requiring each household to have a bucket and turnout whenever the town bell rang, it is easier to pay someone else to do the work. However, given the self indulged society we see today and despite those who hate paying for public services etc, you really would not see an end to firefighters to where they were not around.

 

 

As for question 2, why limit yourself to just a wildland fire?

If you have a fire encroaching on structures, wouldn't you want to make every effort to extinguish it before it affects the houses? Why gamble with the fire and allow it to burn longer and closer to a structure to "protect" it from future fires, when realistically a good gust of wind or atmospheric change can make the fire jump your efforts and now attack the structure, when it was possible to extinguish the fire beforehand? What is the greatest threat of danger....the fire that has not occurred, or the active one you have now?

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Permalink Reply by Noah Harms on April 10, 2012 at 11:54am

I had worded that question wrong. my question is yes put the fires out near the homes but pushing the fire out to more open areas to let it clear out underbrush. When pioneers came through they would journal about the amount of space between the trees because of the natural forest fires that came through and burned themselves out. And thank you for posting.

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Permalink Reply by Moose on April 10, 2012 at 12:16pm

What happened to the old fashioned way of research...reading books! lol

I agree with John, is your paper only on these two questions? 

 

I believe that if there were no firefighters, people would learn over time to be safer with fire and fire safety and there would be fewer fires, because of the loss of life and destruction that would ensue worldwide.  It takes tragedy to change ones mindset unfortunately, look at "9-11", there was outpooring for firefighters everywhere after that tragic day but the farther away from that date we get the more people forget about us again, and say we are not needed, and we are the first things in the budget that get less or gets cut altogether.  Without firefighters the population would be smaller, and urban renewal would be easier.

 

I agree with certain brush fires, let them burn, hence the use of fire lines and burn backs.  Some areas have controlled burns to do just that, clear the dead brush away so when the fire season comes there is less to burn out of control.  Its not easy to protect the homes near the woods or in the woods for that matter, so its rough to answer that question accurately.  I would like to protect those homes, but if it gets hairy, theres nothing you can do but evacuate them and rebuild the house. 

 

This should be an interesting paper, you should let us proofread it for you and grade you before you hand it in!

Good luck with it, let us know.

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Permalink Reply by Noah Harms on April 10, 2012 at 12:23pm

Sounds good I will post it when it is finished. I just formed a couple of more questions that I had forgotten to add to the original post.

3) Why do you think people believe that firefighters only put out fires when we do so much more?

4) Which one is a harder career forest fighting or structural firefighting/medical, or are they even?

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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on April 10, 2012 at 2:02pm

Noah,

If you were to ask which is better: 1 1/2", 1 3/4" or 2" attack lines; solid bore versus fog nozzle, you would receive a variety of answers based on a individual's knowledge, experience and success/failure for each.  In the hands of a seasoned vet or a green FNG each of the above may have different outcomes and if you were to search for 'expert' answers to the above you'd find a lot of contradictions.  In other words, mostly the answers would be opinions.

The same can be said about your four questions.  Each can be answered based on an individual's own opinion, much as you could answer them based on your opinion.  But a good research paper involves more than just asking people to answer your topic questions. 

Question 1 could be answered simply, like Emily did, or with a little more thought, as John did.  But if you're going to be required to include your sources/references/bibliography then you are going to have to do some actual 'research' and read up on the history and evolution of the fire service.  From which you could then derive your own answer.

Question 2 can likewise be answered as an opinion but it may not address the issues that bring you to the point of the question, namely: why are you having to decide whether or not to save a house that is in a wilderness area?  You might want to review the historical reasoning for why the U.S. Forest Service implemented an 'all fires will be put out' policy.  How did that come about?  What were the motivating factors?  Was it a good or bad policy? Why?  You might want to consider whether or not housing should be allowed (or allowed to be rebuilt) in areas prone to wild fires.  And you might want to consider zoning regs that require setbacks, specific construction methods as well as allowable plant types and planting locations.

Question 3 is worded to imply that people ONLY think that firefighters put out fires.  It's a biased question that requires people to agree with your question when that may in facy be furthest from the truth.

Question 4 there are a lot of case studies of some of the more famous wild fires (and a couple of movies) that highlight the dangers, risks, tactics, strategies, failures and successes (I don't know of a single person, ever, who has parachuted into a house fire) .  If a person has only done one or the other how can they fairly answer that question?  And is fighting a 5 acre rural brush fire the same as a 5000 acre wild land fire ?  Can you compare a one story SFD wood frame construction house fire to a high rise apartment fire?  And can either be compared to brush or forest fire firefighting?

Sadly, I suspect that your only real option here is to do the research yourself.  There is the new thing called  'the google and the internets' you might want to try and, failing that I understand that there are still something called 'libraries.'

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Permalink Reply by Emily Coonradt on April 11, 2012 at 11:11am

I did a research paper in my freshman year of high school that was on the history on firefighing and i did use the internet and the library but i also asked my dad and the other guys in my department about how different the fire department was when they joined, i would suggest asking the guys in your department their views too. ( I got an A+ on the paper, i also had a little help from a visual aid.)

3. I think people kinda just assume that we are all one trick ponies and that were not capable of doing more than just fighting fires. I think they just need tio be educated on the other duties most of us do.

 4. I think that both areas are about the same. Though some people will say that you need more guts to do one over the other and yes you do because they are only trained in one or they may be trained to do both  depending on where they live, but there are many differences that set the two apart.

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Permalink Reply by Noah Harms on April 12, 2012 at 11:44am

I am using google, libraries, and other internet sources. I was also wanting to hear other actual firefighters opinions as well.

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Permalink Reply by Emily Coonradt on April 14, 2012 at 2:11am

Thats great to hear and i hope your paper comes out great. Post some more stuff to answer, i like to help.

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Permalink Reply by Chris Wilson on April 25, 2012 at 11:13pm

1) What do you think the world would be like if firefighters were not around?
I think that we would be living a different lifestyle with more emphesis on fear of fire rather then understanding it or respecting it.

2) Should we focus on protecting houses in forested areas near a forest fire, but, allow the fire to burn a bit longer clearing away more underbrush that will become even more fuel if another fire were to come through?

I do not believe that there is a simple yes or no answer to this question. I think that there are too many factors that could sway one way or another.

3) Why do you think people believe that firefighters only put out fires when we do so much more?
This is what the media shows. It is also what excites the general public. However the public will never understand what all goes into a fire department unless they spend time at the firehouse.

4) Which one is a harder career forest fighting or structural firefighting/medical, or are they even?
Each one offers a unique set of challenges, I do not think I could say one is more difficult than the other. This is why reading, studying, training and drilling are so important. You have to expect everything and adopt at the drop of a dime to get the job done.

My comments are my views and opinions only and may not reflect the views and opinions of any service I am affiliated with.

Hope this helps sorry if it's too late to help, I just saw this thread today.

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