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Should Felons be allowed to be Firefighters?
I am wondering what you all thought about a few things.
1) Should Felons be allowed to be Firefighters?
2) Does your fire department hire felons?
3) If you are a firefighter and you are convicted of a felony, should you be fired?
The reason why I bring this up is because I got an email recently about Richmond (VA) Fire Department hiring.
Apparently, they have dropped the requirements for employment:
* Have no felony convictions for any offense within 60 months preceding the date of application;
I got the information here
I cannot speak for the department if this was an actual drop in requirement or if it has always been this way.
I thought that if you were a felon, you were always a felon. The only way to get a felony off your record is to have the Courts expunge it from your record.
What do you all think?
1) Should Felons be allowed to be Firefighters?
2) Does your fire department hire felons?
3) If you are a firefighter and you are convicted of a felony, should you be fired?
The reason why I bring this up is because I got an email recently about Richmond (VA) Fire Department hiring.
Apparently, they have dropped the requirements for employment:
* Have no felony convictions for any offense within 60 months preceding the date of application;
I got the information here
I cannot speak for the department if this was an actual drop in requirement or if it has always been this way.
I thought that if you were a felon, you were always a felon. The only way to get a felony off your record is to have the Courts expunge it from your record.
What do you all think?
Replies are closed for this discussion.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by eric nelson on
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People have to lie about it because of people like you who like to judge people on something that happened 22 years ago instead of looking at what the person has done over the past 20 years. Paul you act as if you are a better person than me and thats just not the case.
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Ben,
When you have people who would rather judge you based on something that happened 22 years ago for only 2 minutes of your life rather than look at all of the accomplishments since that time, it makes it hard. I have co-workers and neighbors who stated they would never let a felony into their lives. If I were to tell people as soon as I meet them about my felony they would not even give me a chance.
During graduate school I did a study regarding the aformentioned statement and found out of the 110 people I spoke with (all strangers) 105 of them told me I would not be welome in thier homes nor would they ever want me to work for them or befriend them. There was a lot more that went into this study but this was the reader's digest version! It amazes me that people would rather judge me based on 2 minutes of my life when I was 17 instead of everything I have done in my life.
Ben, I hear all of the time, everyone in prison is innocent, don't ya know. Well, my case is not the same as the others and if it were than I would understand why i'm being judged. If I were untrustworthy and committed crimes than I would not be on this site trying to figure out why society won't let something go that happened when I was a teenager.
Ben, most people do believe my story and still refuse to judge me based on my accomplishments. I assure you my story is 100% accurate and with that being said I still think you would rather judge me based on what happened 22 years ago! As I have said before with the exception of this felony, I would gurantee that I would be one of the most honest and trustworthy people you have ever met! After reading all of these comments on this board you should clearly understand why I choose to not tell everyone about my felony. I would love to tell everyone but as I have previously stated I have done the studies that show I would not have a chance at anything in life if people knew about it, so why even bring it up???????? -
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Permalink Reply by Brandon on
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Call mcneil and associates in onslow county at 910-455-2322 dad or his partner might be able to give you some advice
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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Hypothetically (and food for thought);
Statue of Limitations
While it varies from state to state, crimes of murder, sexual assault (especially of a minor) (Class A felonies) have no Statute of limitations. Those felonies which have a sentence of more than 1 year, a Statute of Limitation of 5 years. Other felonies, 1 year Statute of Limitation (Connecticut, http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/criminal-case-statute-of-limit...)
So even if unequivocal evidence arises that a person did commit a felony, if the statute of limitations has run out no charges can be filed against that person. Now clearly that person, while not having been charged with a felony did indeed commit one, would that person be precluded from hiring? What if that person was arrested and charged for that felony (say it made the papers and so would show up in an online search), yet the case was thrown out due to expiration of the Statute of Limitations. Would you still allow him to be hired? He wasn't convicted?
From - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony
In the United States felons often face additional consequences, such as the loss of voting rights in many states; exclusion from certain lines of work and difficulty in finding a job in others; prohibition from obtaining certain licenses; exclusion from purchase and possession of firearms, ammunition and body armor; and ineligibility to run for, or be elected to, public office.
All of these losses of privileges, including others noted explicitly by the judge in sentencing, are known as collateral consequences of criminal charges.
For state law convictions, expungement is determined by the law of the state. Few states do not allow expungement, regardless of the offense.
Eric, you make a strong case, however you've shot yourself in the foot with regard to your admitting that you lied on your job and state applications with regard to your past felony. Stating that you are the most honest and trustworthy person one would ever find pales in the face of your admission.
' Reply by eric nelson on November 17, 2009 at 8:45pm
...Here is the issue, yes I have a felony on my record. I had to lie on my application to get hired by my current employer (they must not have done a background check) and I also had to lie on my state application for my Paramedic license (they too must not have completed the background check). I had no choice but to lie otherwise we all know I would have never recieved my Paramedic license nor would I have been hired."
Had you truthfully admitted you had a felony conviction on your job application and were still hired then you would have a much stronger case in here. But you didn't. Youthful mistakes can haunt a person regardless of how much they've turned their life around and it appears that you made that effort, save for that one little lie you told on your app.
So while you deem yourself to be honest and trustworthy you have shown that you will lie when it comes to benefiting yourself. And failing to expose a felony conviction is not at all like telling a white lie. You conspired to cover up your conviction. How honest does that make you, really?
Irrespective of opinions in here, whether or not one can be hired is directly up to State Legislation and Department Hiring Policies. If one has a strong enough case then expungement is the only route available. Otherwise one has only to live with the "collateral consequences of criminal charges." Our opinions are meaningless. -
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Permalink Reply by Firewriter on
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Folks, it all comes down to one thing - trust. If you have to lie about a previous conviction, that negates trust.
I am not judging anyone. Chit happens in life and mistakes are made. But lying about it is almost more stupid than the original crime! All the lying does is say, "I am not trustworthy".
I hired felons in private sector because their crimes did not impact what we were doing - nor did they go into private domiciles. Government, whatever level, is a whole different thing. -
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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lying on that application is also punishable by law...any since you aired out your dirty laundry here it would not surprise me to hear that you got busted (again)....People do read these posts.....Yes, I have made mistakes in my life...But...nothing that could land me in jail.....enough said....and every job that I ever got or promotion I received I got on my own REAL merits.....Paul
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I have always stated on this mesage board that I'm extremely honest expect for when it comes to this felony. You and I both know (at least I do) that I would never have been hired or recieved my Medic license if I would not have filled out the application the way I did!
Jack/dt, for about the first 10 years I was extremely open and honest about the felony on my record and with no exageration, every single door and opportunity was shut. I told myself I had to do something to make a good life for myself and this would have been impossible to do as long as people knew about this felony. I could see if I was hiding the felony in order to commit other crimes or do bad things, but this is not the case. I want people to judge me for who I am today and who I have been my whole life with the exception of 2 minutes 22 years ago. As long as people know I have a felony I will never even get close to first base! I have done the honesty thing with the felony for the first 10 years after it happened and it got me no where. I even had a hard time getting a loan from the bank because of it. I now can get just about any loan I apply for, especially since my credit score is above 800.
In the years since I stopped revealing I have a felony I have been given some great opportunities and have done great things with my life, had I continued to be honest about the felony, I gurantee you that I would have nothing! I know who I am and how honest and trustworthy I am and I would not change now and start telling people about this felony at this point! Too me its a mute point, its not who I am and I should not be judged by something that happened two decades ago! The only time the felony has not come back to bite me was serving in the military! The Army gave me a waiver to serve, but no other company or person in America has been willing to look past what i did when I was 17 and yes I was a Sergant in the Army for 6 years! -
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Paul,
I won Paramedic of the year honors 2 times on my own merits! I strongly believe that I have had solid reasons for doing what I have done! If I were to befriend you, I gurantee you would never even suspect me of having a felony. Its because it happened over two decades ago and I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. The felony conviction should not over shadow my accomplishments throughout my life and yes paul they were recieved with my own real merits! I think its silly that people like you will look past all of my accomplishments and make your decisions about me over an event that happened 22 years ago. Maybe you are the one that needs to do some soul searching! -
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Just to clarify what I actually done on my application, I left the space blank pertaining to convictions and no one came back to question it. I call this a lie because I did not answer the question and to me this is a lie. However, you guys are wrong if you think I checked the NO box. This still does not change the fact that I do not tell people I have a felony. why do they need to know?????????? I have many friends throughout the community and I do good things and for people like Paul to judge me on something I did when I was a kid is ridiculous! Could you imagine if society judged all of us on our actions when we were teenagers?????
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Permalink Reply by WestPhilly on
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eric,
It's commendable that you have changed your life around (although some of the shine comes off that achievement when you characterize your felony as a "mistake" and "being in the wrong place at the wrong time") but it's perfectly rational for fire departments to have set-in-stone rules against hiring those with felony convictions. -
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I understand, but its not like I just recieved the felony and I'm asking people to believe I'm a good person. This felony was over 22 years ago and I honestly believe I have proven myself to society, but why beat a dead horse. I understand that rules are rules. If you have a chance go back and read the story regarding my felony, I posted it on November 17 or 18.
As Paul said jails are full of innocent people, but I'm one of the few cases that actually has merit. Like I said I have done alright in life anyway take care and be safe! -
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You guys take care I don't think there is much more to say regarding the topic. If any of you have questions feel free to email me, some of you already have. Take care!
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