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Should CPAT be made less intense so more women can pass?
There has been a lot of talk going around in the Fire and EMS field about a few women wanting to take legal action against departments because CPAT is to hard for women to pass and some even feel it is a way to keep women out of the fire service. I'm not sure if that is so because there are a lot of men who fail it also! I know women who have passed and they passed with ease! I think its a matter of how bad you really want it! I think it truely sets a fair minimum standard for men and women because it reflects the stamina and strenth needed to perform the job and not if you're male or female! What are your thoughts?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jake Fireman on
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Chele;
I like the way you think. When I was testing (and there were still dinosaurs roaming), We took the "A" candidate at each level and processed them through. Is that fair...I dunno.
Where it becomes "sticky" is....If a person is a "C" on the written because it is pass/fail, and a "C" on the agility because it is a pass/fail, and they get a 85% on the oral, should they have the same chance at getting hired as someone who was at all levels an "A"?
Common Sense...oh my, I wish there was a test that measured that. Also a test that measured the "kiss ass" factor and if you scored over, I dunno, a 1% you would automatically be out of the process.
I guess the bottom line is, do you want to work with or have a person save you or a family member who was always at the "C" level???
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Permalink Reply by chele on
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So if I got a C on my CPAT and you were considering me for hire, would you want me to improve after hire, or would you eliminate me from consideration?
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Thanks!
I too wish there wish there was an accurate way to measure common sense! And I like your assessment of what to do about butt kissers too!
I guess it would depend on why they are a C. Is it because they don't have a good work ethic so they just skate by? Or because they don't take firefighting as seriously as they should? Well then I don't think I want them to have my back at a fire. But what about the guy that really really wants it, works harder than anybody else but no matter how hard he tries he just doesn't ever seem to grade higher than a C? This is the man I would proudly fight fire with. That C student may have more heart, guts, and try than the 10 A students put together.
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Permalink Reply by Luis on
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if you cant do the Job ie pass the CPAT then this job is not for you! Man or Woman
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Ok what if that guy/gal has all the heart in the world, and they passed with 1/10th of a second in the agility, just barely made a "low" standard and now they have to drag your or my butt out of a fire?
See it's good on 'paper' but doesnt always match up in real life. Same can be said for the 30 year vet who is 80 lbs overweight. Can he lift me out? OR..hell can I LIFT him out?
I once had a candidate at an oral exam. He was very small in physical stature. I askek him if he could pull my ff out of a fire (6'3" 225lbs). He said "If I couldn't I'd die trying"
GREAT HEART....I love that....
Unfortunately ..NOW I HAVE 2 DEAD firefighters
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Permalink Reply by rfdjumper on
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The CPAT, or shall I say the stairmaster is a little difficult, other than that, the test is a cake walk. Absolutely not, the test should not be made "less intense". The test is a bare minimum baseline test. If you can't pass it then you have no business in a paid department. Oh and none of this 3 times to pass crap. It's pass or fail. If you fail train harder the next time a department test.
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rfd...I agree, only it should be a percentage score with your pass notice.
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I understand what you mean. Before I joined our volunteer fire department I always used the argument that I shouldn't be a fireman because if my partner went down I would not be able to pull him out of a fire. I'm a good sized gal at 5'9" and 155 pounds, but many of the men on our department are well over 200 pounds (think 280) butt nekid, so add bunker gear and oh hell no I can't drag them out by myself. But I can call for help. That's what team work is all about. I'm not sure some of them could drag me out, depending on the circumstances.
I suppose maybe I'd feel differently if most of our fires were high rise structure fires, or of anything in my experience were to show me otherwise. Luckily for us we have very few structure fires! We mostly fight fire on the back of a grass rig.
Overall, yes, of course I think it's important to be in good physical condition. Fighting fire is hard work; I just don't really think firefighting should be limited to only those in the BEST physical condition. Same sentiment on the written.
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So if we take the BEST at CPAT, the BEST at written, the BEST at oral...How else do you judge? For instance I have seen a lot that have HEART before they get hired, then once hired it seems to vanish. They tell everybody they passed the same test as everyone else...bla bla bla...But if they are not the BEST, or at least the BEST I can find...why do I really want to hire them?
I don't want some cyborg-firefighter. I just want someone who can pass a set of what are already "LOW" standards at a high level.
I mean there is currently a written exam that has this question in the math portion
What is the square root of the sum of 3 X 3?
Uh duh???!!!!????
And we want people that can only get a 70% on this test????
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Permalink Reply by Ben "Batman" Barry on
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i say make it the same. if women or men cant handle it then they cant handle the job most likely
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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If we were to lower the testing requirements for ANY gender to pass, including some men who can't pass it now, do you really want to work with a "person" (non-gender answer) who may not be capable to operate at the pre-determined minimum capacity?
If a guy can't cut it now, my answer would be no I do not want to him on my crew... same goes for females who can't cut it either.
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