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Saving our Own - The use of the SCBA
I am curious with the variety of training backgrounds, techniques, and equipment for Firefighter Safety, Survival and RIT, how many here at FFN were trained to lower an unconscious firefighter from an upper egress point with the SCBA straps or the SCBA backplate?
In reality if you are being threatened by fire or such, many good intent firefighters will choose the quickest way out or off the floor. We are trying to save our own but in turn our actions can create some new hazards that we should consider. In the photo below we can see an SCBA that suffered a catastrophic failure where the lowering line met at the SCBA's attachment point.
Many times during training, I have had a student say they would use their latest standard in PPE; "The DRD" drag rescue device feature. Well have you used the DRD for this type of manuever? Do you know if it was designed for this or just horizontal drags on a surface? Knowledge is the key.
Were you trained in alternative techniques and the use of rescue equipment? Do you know if your SCBA manufacturer, recommends the use or NON-use of their SCBA as an egress attachment?
Knowledge of our equipment is essential for daily survival. Should the need ever arise to think outside the box, would you have the knowledge to do it safely?
And my last thought has many pondering.... I use the KISS method and always preach the basics. My question though is have we gotten to "advanced" today? In the old days a firefighter would have carried down by another brother over a ground ladder. Has the amount of trainers in the world, created this "one-up" mentality with "Hey we could do this rescue another way."
Take Care and Stay Safe
FETC
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Gary Hammer on
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Don't understand this one. The ladder is right there! Bring him, (if he's really out) down the ladder! Safer, and part of our training!
SCBA harness was never intended to be used for lifting. I'm willing to bet the manufacturer is cringing on this one (although secretly proud it worked).
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Permalink Reply by Sparky3317 on
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Im going to have to agree with Gary here. In training when it comes to firefighter rescue I have always been drilled on firefighter carries down the ladder. To put your brothers life in trust of the SCBA harness that was not produced for this type of a resue is alittle out of the box thinking for me. I know that we are taught firefighter drags and harnesses with the SCBAs but that is for horizontal carries as well.
And for instance even if you didnt have a ladder in place (which every window should be covered for egress anyways) by the time you get the rope to be able to tie a harness around the firefighters SCBA, secured an anchor point and make sure all the knots are correct and tight you could have had a ladder or the stick to the window or other egress point alot quicker and its alot safer.
I dont know about others but if someone lowered me down that way with a ladder nearby and I got hurt I know they are my fellow brothers but they are definately going to get a slap on the back of the head for that one.
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Permalink Reply by Olivia Jones on
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Im with you guys not sure how other depts work but here if someone goes down thier partner is to bring him out. If for whatever reason 1 man isnt able to get the fallen brother out, we not onl dipatch RIT (if we have it avaliable small dept) but also provided conditions are favorable the closest team immediatly goes and offers assisstance, wheather that is in the form of fire suppression so a rescue can be made or pulling a brother from a collapsed floor etc.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Bring him down the ladder if there is adequate manpower to do so.
If not, know how to quickly make a safe and effective hasty full-body harness out of a 20-foot webbing loop and use the webbing harness - not the SCBA harness - to lower the downed firefighter.
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Permalink Reply by Ron King (Fire Chief) on
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The SCBA straps are made to hold the tank not the firefighter! Not smart at all.
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Cap, what if you don't have the available manpower to even heel the ladder, let alone to have an exterior crew make the rescue?
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Chief, it wasn't the straps that failed, it was the backpack frame.
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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Well this is a technique I'm actually glad to say this is the very first time I ever heard of this or saw a picture. It would have never crossed my mind to even think about doing something like this. We have trained in utilizing SCBA straps for an unconscious FF to be RAISED from a basement, but not to lower from an upper level. The mention of using a DRD for such a thing is also dangerous. The DRD is nothing more than a girth hitch of webbing incorporated into a FF jacket, there is no harness rating for such a maneuver like lowering. Also, being dragged by a DRD actually sucks, I would much rather do a quick harness with webbing than utilize the DRD. While training, I found being dragged by the DRD dislodged my facepieceby pushing my head down, that didn't happen with the webbing.
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If you don't have a 20-foot webbing loop to use as a hasty harness, you can still use the SCBA straps for rescue, and you can do it safely. There are two things you MUST do to make this work.
1) Unfasten the waist strap buckle, fully extend the waist straps, run the waist strap between the legs (tucked to the side, please) re-clip the buckle, then snug the straps down. This prevents the "slide out of the harness" problem.
2) If you use a carabiner to clip the rescue rope into the SCBA, clip it around the shoulder straps between the backplate and the firefighter's back, NOT into the hole in the backplate. If you don't have a carabiner, tie a Bowline or a Figure 8 Follow-Through knot around both of the shoulder straps between the firefighter and the backplate.
If the roof ledge or other position isn't tenable, just getting the firefighter out and then waiting for help might not be a viable option.
Current-edition SCBA harnesses will hold a firefighter IF you use the strong parts of the assembly, not the weak part as shown in the photo above.
Alternatively, you can use the Double-Loop Figure 8 know to use the rescue rope end as a seat harness and just clip a carabiner around the rope and around the SCBA shoulder straps. That way, the rope will hold most of the firefighter's weight, and the SCBA harness will just support a minimal amount of weight but will hold the firefighter upright while he's being lowered.
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Just a quick note: I dont think there are many fire departments with the man power to heel ladders on a fire ground, doesnt mean we dont use them on a regular basis.
Secondly if you got the man power to be throwing ladders or exterior crews doing work you got manpower to assist. Say those three words over the radio "Mayday, Mayday, Mayday" and hopefully everyone drops what they are doing. No matter how bad a fire if you hear those three words its time to concentrate on the mayday not the fire.
And another note theres always a little guy in a white helmet usually they call him the chief or another IC on scene (hopefully), they can always put down their radio for a minute and lend a hand.
Plus if you dont have the manpower to heel a ladder or an exterior crew to make the rescue how are you going to anchor yourself, and I noticed below you were talking about using ropes and strapes and webbings to do this, where are these coming from? Alot of firefighters dont carry webbing or rope in their gear because they dont have bunkers with pockets and there are also alot of SCBAs still out there that dont have the rescue rope bags on them.
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Say those three words over the radio "Mayday, Mayday, Mayday" and hopefully everyone drops what they are doing. No matter how bad a fire if you hear those three words its time to concentrate on the mayday not the fire.
Sorry there Josh, but there is no way that everyone drops what they are doing when a MAYDAY is called. The hazard that caused the MAYDAY in the first place (the fire) still exists and will only grow bigger and more angry if everyone dropped what they are doing, that really becomes freelancing on a larger scale. There is a reason for a RIT team, RIT training, MAYDAY training, saving your own, incident command, job tasks, and so forth....so that if something does happen, everyone just doesn't drop what they are doing.
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John good point and completely understandable. I will admit I didnt think that post all the way through before I typed it my mistake and sorry for that.
And now that I do re read the post it does sound a little stupid my bad late night post.
Im going to repost this as:
Say those three words over the radio "Mayday, Mayday, Mayday" and hopefully the exterior crews or firefighters on scene assigned to a RIT team or ones that clear it with the chief or IC first can clear from their tasks if not nessicary (my spelling sucks I know) to the extinguishment of the fire at that time and concentrate on the mayday and not the fire until the mayday is over.
Hopefully that sounds alittle better.
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