RIT/RIC and hoselines

So RIT?RIC and HOSE LINES

SITREP

Recent reported structure fire in my first due, occupants report smoke and flames showing from hot water heater/ furnace, reports all occupants out of residence. Ariving engine reports nothing showing from exterior smell of smoke comming from open front door upon 360. has 2 ff pull 1 3/4 lead to front door. Second due engine to water supply and two ff to RIT.

Now every class I have gone thru tells me RIT/RIC in it self does not have a hose line. Thats what back up crews are for right?

Needless to say fire was out upon investigation from attack team with damage only to the furnace and duct work.

What are your thoughts on RIT/RIC and hose lines? What are your SOP/SOG in this reguard?

Sorry for crappy sentance structure and choppy paragraphs trying to do this from my phone.

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Permalink Reply by captnjak on April 6, 2014 at 12:48pm

John,

First of all, I am sorry for your loss.

Your arguement is very persuasive and your point well taken. In a perfect world, I'd still rather see a unit other than RIT on a needed handline, but I don't deny the necessity at times of RIT doing this. It will be dictated by resources on scene. RIT having a handline solves one problem but may create another, that being insufficient personnel for actual rescue.

The real answer, which may be unattainable in a timely manner if we still want to agressively fight the fire, is having more resources assigned to RIT. I don't mean after the Mayday but before. I believe a RIT team should have a unit for rescue and a unit for stretching a handline, although I was not aware that any department actually did this. It appears that Boston does do it.

Your incident and the recent Boston incident teach us a lot about both the capabilities and limitations of RIT. I believe many of us are fooling ourselves about what we'll really be able to accomplish when facing a Mayday situation. A good long look is needed at RIT policies. Policy should realistically address as many variables as possible. I'd rather have the resources assigned be more than we need than less than we need. I don't pretend to have the answers for smaller departments with lower staffing and distant mutual aid.

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Permalink Reply by Don Catenacci on April 6, 2014 at 2:50pm

John,

Again, there is HUGE difference in the time frame for responding additional companies in the rural environment that I call my home and where you work. We are still working on our RIT SOG and we may modify it to call for additional staffing from a mutual aid company right off the bat. It all depends on what the Chief's decide they want to do. So I can't give you a definitive answer on that yet.

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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on April 10, 2014 at 10:54pm

I will say that after looking back on the incident I was involved in and learning more and more from other RIT deployments, for the most part all companies working are essentially operating together in a MAYDAY situation. While RIT is tasked with the duty of retrieving a downed FF, the job is not theirs alone. It still takes other companies doing their jobs to facilitate RIT doing theirs. This may mean those other companies may be asked to work longer or push harder than in other circumstances. You may see a quick changeout of air and right back to work and so forth, if need be. Whereas without a MAYDAY, it would be easier to pull back and change tactics if the conditions change.

So this is why the county protocol here,was changed to have the next alarm level automatically sent via dispatch in a MAYDAY. This way there will be more personnel already showing up to relieve those crews because they will be physically spent. It gives companies a chance to regroup and rehab while other units take care of the fire. In cases where all efforts were unsuccessful, it helps to get those personnel on the MAYDAY alarm a chance to regroup and reflect without necessarily having to be used again. Of course this depends upon the situation and personnel available, but an initial debrief can help.

Captnjak,

You do have some valid points, especiialy in regards to committment of crews in situations that may be unttainable, and furthers the situational awareness. I know there are many depts out there that may be pushing things without adequate resources to handle a MAYDAY. You're right on your first post here that 2 in 2 out is outdated, but it is a start. I would hope those members operating in such conditions reflect on this thread to look at how things are done to either focus on the situations and or build upon a RIT policy. I lived the changeover of RIT and the inadequacies we had prior to and how things changed afterwards......night and day difference.

Don,

I do understand the limitations regarding the rural depts and additional companies. We have depts in the county in similar situations as yours in regards to response. The point was, and why this is a county standard here, is that crews will be asked to go further and beyond in a MAYDAY situation. Having additional companies automatically sent gives those crews a relief.

In our situation, we did have the next alarm contigent roll shortly after the MAYDAY, and still took timefor rigs to get on scene. All crews on the initial assignment changed out bottles a couple times before being relieved by other crews and all crews were physically and even emotionally spent. It took off duty personnel being ordered in and to arrive on scene in order to truly relieve personnel. Although much of this was our incident specific, the reason the next alarm is automatically dispatched is to fill in where needed and to get those other companies a break. Even if stacking up a RIT prior to, say there is a MAYDAY and all works out well, having more resources coming in will only help those crews working a chance to regroup.

Personally, I don't need definitives nor answers on anyone's particular policies, but just some things for them to consider.