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Rescue Rope
Looking into getting new rescue rope for my vol. fire dept. Looking for suggestions on brands, types (static or dynamic), lengths? We don't really preform a lot of rope rescues, but we do have some steep terrian, and we have the Mississippi River running through our fire district. We have Ice rescue suits that we train with and we deal with some swift water rescue training. Anyone I ask at the fire house doesn't know when we purchased our current rope and I was going to do some research on getting all new stuff. When I searched it online the results are overwhelming. Any help is appriciated. Thanks everyone.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Rescue 2 Training on
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Ok. What about prussik's? They don't meet NFPA anything, but are still used; neither are the trees, handrails, and structural columns we ultimately anchor our systems to. But we make an educated guess on what to use.
I know I am probably coming off as argumentitive and I don't mean to sound that way. NFPA will hopefully rectify this issue when (if?) they ever put out the Selection, Care, and Maintenance document for equipment that has been talked about for some time.
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Permalink Reply by matt foro on
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Actually to be fully correct NFPA 1670, 1006 and 1983 are used for the rope rescue and knowing all 3 of them along with having a SOG and will trained personal will save a dept a mound of headache and BS when OSHA, STATE Fire and PESH come on your doorstep if something bad happens NO MATTER WHAT CONSIDER 1983 AS A BASIC GUIDENCE TO ALL ROPE OPS
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Actually, prussics do meet the rope standards of 1983 if you use strength-tested prussics. One strand of 8mm prussic doesn't meet the standard by itself, but since we never use a prussic without two strands, the total strength of 2 strands of 8mm actually exceeds the strength of a single strand of 12 mm life safety rope.
The NFPA 1983 is, as you stated, a manufacturing standard.
That standard doesn't cover the manufacture of trees, handrails, or structural columns. It does cover the manufacture of rope, webbing, harnesses, carabiners, descenders, ascehders, and other rope rescue devices.
I don't take this as argumentative - you're just asking questions.
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Just remember that 1983 is not and end-user standard like 1670 and 1006 are. It is a manufacturing standard.
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Permalink Reply by Kenneth R.Forsyth on
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the use of ropes in your jurisdiction is subject to the terrain and bulding size ...you need to purchase ropes long enough for the heights you have to traverse as for the types you need(static or dynamic) i have found static rope works best in rescue situations for its low stretch and tensile strength,a good polypropylene rope works better in water rescue also either way you go it is to be used in rescue only..any other use of this rope declines its you to service rope and should no longer be used in rescue situations
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Permalink Reply by B HICKS on
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First you need to look at NFPA 1983. All your gear should be labeled as meeting this standard. If it does not, or if you cannot find documentation of meeting this standard, and your department has not followed this standard (care,use documenting, inspection) get rid of it. Use it is short 10' sections for practicing knot tying in the station. Now you and your department need to look at NFPA standards 1006, and 1670. You have to understand, as some of the people replying to e-mail do not, that rope, and its associated equipment is combined into a lot of technical/non-technical rescue situations. For instance: an auto over a steep enbankment, off the roadway. You can climb down the embankment, but you cannot package a patient and carry them up the steep slope without a stokes basket, and a belayed rope, as a safety (low-angle) rope use. Ice rescue- low angle/ non technical rope rescue. Confined space entry/rescue- may be low, or high angle rope rescue. Swiftwater rescue- low angle rope rescue. Your department needs to look at itself and answer the questions: What type of emergencies are we currently trained to sefely complete. What types of emergency rope type rescues have we been called for over recent yrs, and the what types of rope rescues are we likely to experience. What are the capabilities of surrounding departments? Are "joint" equipment purchases/trainings are possible? At what level of rope rescue is our department capable of supporting with $, and personnel???
I have been "dabling" in technical rescue for some 20 or so years. If you need more assistance, I am here. Think low angle rescue first. It happens more often. Start with the basics...
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That is why we use "belay" redundant systems.... If your anchor is questionable.....
1 - Don't use it.
2- Can we back it up to make it as strong as the rest of the system?
3- Is the second rope (belay) capable of holding the load plus the anticipated shockload?
A Prussik should never be used as 1, on a system.
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"A Prussik should never be used as 1, on a system."
Can you clarify what you mean by this?
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So for the sake of argument, I'll buy your idea that ALL of the gear should have an NFPA label on it. Can you direct me to an NFPA compliant Stokes basket or a compliant system to lash a victim in with? I don't think NFPA addresses this.
Also, are you in favor of only using rated anchor straps or rope for an anchor and not sections of 1" webbing just because it does not have an NFPA label?
Additionally, just because something is low angle does not necessarily make it non technical.
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If you place the victim in a NFPA compliant harness and connect it to the primary and belay systems, then whether or not the stokes basket is rated doesn't matter.
The stokes lashing system doesn't require NFPA compliance, because it a) isn't going to support a rescue load and b) isn't even going to support the patient's weight - it's essentially a seat-belt to keep the patient in the litter.
The fact that the NFPA doesn't address some system components in no way should be confused with it being a good thing to use non-NFPA-compliant versions of components for which 1983 does have a manufacturing specification.
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N.F.P.A. addresses rope/software manufacturing standards and testing. Hardware (carbiners, descenders, ascender) manufacturing/testing standards. It does not address "stokes" as per say. Why?? Your Dept has to decide what/how you are going to use the stokes. I.e. on snow/ice you may not want to use a heavy stainless steel stokes that is rated for 10K Lbs. Use would use a lighter weight (ferno) type stokes, because of the weight of the equipment, the ability to attach floats, having a "solid" bottom to slide on the hillside/ice, and not having the weight of the victim and 1 or 2 rescuers being suspended from the basket. Decide how many person(s) are you "comfortable" with hanging from this basket/rope sytem. When looking for a stokes type patient device for "high angle", you need to look at your individual components of your sytem, and make it as strong as you can. N.F.P.A. does not address strokes because there are too many variables.... Another area to look is Military Specs.
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Correct... It is all about the amount of "liability" your Department wants to take on. Your department, utilizing N.F.P.A. standards, or other "testing" agencies, such as: ANSI, NIOSH, UIAA,UL allows us "share" the liability, per say. It goes back to: would you suspend all your own weight from several feet from an "unknown" website agency, with no testing records.....
This is where the "larger" agencies like SMC, CMC, Roco, Petzl have grown to be trusted because of their testing procedures, research and development of rope/equipment.
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