Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on February 16, 2011 at 3:33pm

If a FD says you can't carry, you can't carry. It's not an abrogation of one;s rights but rather, a condition of employment. And it makes no difference whether that dept. is professional or volunteer, they, not you, set the rules.

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Permalink Reply by Hawk on February 16, 2011 at 11:33pm

Chief, no disrespect but it sounds a little like you think your guys are going to do something to cause you grief. Is this the case?

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Permalink Reply by Michael Meadows on February 16, 2011 at 11:36pm

I think my Chief said it best. "I'm not going to tell you what to put in your car but on scene I better not see any weapons, period." We do have CCW classes at our station and sometimes set up targets in the back for target practice at our headquarters for bow practice and such for hunting seasons, but as a rule no guns or any weapons on a call. By weapons it's understood that it's firearms, not fire equipment that can be used as weapons. That's why we do background checks and get to know our new people so we can try to spot the "loose cannons" that can go off and do damage to people with fire tools. Firefighting is a dangerous business that uses some tools that can be lethal if used in a reckless or dangerous manner. This business don't need lunatics who can kill for fun or other motives. That's my opinion on the subject.

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Permalink Reply by Hawk on February 16, 2011 at 11:36pm

I see your question and I know what you were asking, but as usual, things get out of hand and the topic is heading toward "can I shoot someone while making an aggressive interior attack? That's okay right?"

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Permalink Reply by Hawk on February 16, 2011 at 11:42pm

George, sounds like everyone agrees that fire/EMS calls and guns don't mix. I'd recommend getting one of those really tough lock boxes and bolt that sucker to your truck and when the tones go off-the gun goes in. That way there are no worries about theft from vehicle, theft from FF, accidental discharge, mental patient grabbing gun, etc etc.

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Permalink Reply by KizzmyAzz on February 18, 2011 at 8:25am

I didn't change anything... Yes i am a retired LEO, yes I carry, no I do not believe in engaging in a Firefight while on a call... the idea behind being armed on a call is to defend myself and fellow FF's if/when the attack has started. How many of you that ban firearms on calls have been involved in a use of deadly force situation? I bet none yet you proclaim yourselves to be "experts" have opions based on your personal/political views not facts or experience or anything quantifiable..... I would agee that your average Joe Blow who has never been invoved in a deadly force situation and has not specefic firearms training in dealing with a use of forse situation needs to leave his piece behind... the same as an untrained FF has no bussiness entering a fully involved structure fire. However on the flip side a TRAINED and Experienced individual either LEO or Veteran (Combat Arms, SF, etc..) can mean the difrence between a FF funeral or us all going home to our families. I got it your opions come from the sheltered lives you have led and I am glad that others sacrafices have made it possible and I am glad that you do your part and assist your communities for that I salute you .... but please before you jump to conclusions and decsions take a look at what you DON'T know as opposed to what you THINK you know. If you deparment bans weapons on scene great! My department has 15 FF's we all hunt and fish if we adopted your policy we would never get a fire because almost everyone here is armed if we adopted that policy... well we would never have any responders..

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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on February 18, 2011 at 9:30am

"My department has 15 FF's we all hunt and fish"

Sounds pretty rural to me (as opposed to inner city), not exactly the typical environment in which firefighters find themselves being shot at. Sounds more to me an issue of wish fulfillment than any real exposure to risk. When was the last time a firefighter was shot at, much less injured/killed, in a rural, hunting and fishing area?

"... the idea behind being armed on a call is to defend myself and fellow FF's if/when the attack has started."

I did a quick (albeit by no means conclusive) search here -
http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=nav...
Interestingly I couldn't find a single, intentional incident of a firefighter being shot at in a rural area. Certainly there could be an isolated instance in a rural area but every one that showed up was in an urban environment. Moreover, in the incidents I did read, there didn't appear to have been any chance for the firefighter to have defended himself.

Although this incident - http://blog.syracuse.com/news/2007/10/drunken_firefighter_shot_anot... was quite interesting.

"I got it your opions come from the sheltered lives you have led..."
Really? You got that from people's opinion that firearms have no place on a fire engine? Hard to tell if that's just you being presumptuous or arrogant. I've lived in my town for over 20 years and I'm not aware of a single incident where the police were involved in a shooting. I guess they too live pretty much sheltered lives.

I would echo your own words back, "...I am glad that you [did] your part and assist your communities for that I salute you ....", but you might want to consider and abide by your own words, "...but please before you jump to conclusions and decsions take a look at what you DON'T know as opposed to what you THINK you know."

I have no objection whatsoever to a (trained, qualified) person carrying a weapon. I've had my CWP for over 25 years and own 2 handguns. The only time I carry is to go to the range. Have I ever been in a gun fight? Nope. Would I be capable of doing so? Don't know. Would I use deadly force to protect myself or others at home? I'd certainly make a go of it.


There's a difference between self defense and aggressively putting one's self in harms way (which is what LEO's are trained and paid to do). Riding in on a rig into a situation that involves gun fire (or the potential), it seems both logical and legally compelling that the best course of action is to remove one's self from the area.

That your fire department has no issues with people carrying weapons is a decision they've made. I can only imagine the liability exposure to your department should there ever be an accidental or wrongful shooting incident involving one of your firefighters. And leaving long guns visible (pick up truck rifle rack) in a locked vehicle in a fire department parking lot is only asking for someone to break in and steal it, again making the owner and the fire department liable, should that weapon be used in an unlawful act. But then, as a retired LEO, you already know that.

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Permalink Reply by George on February 18, 2011 at 9:43am

Again I did not start this with the intentions of a debate on there is "no reason to carry we are protect and serve" I just basically wanted to know how you deal with it when you get a call. Maybe I should have been more clear with the initial question. If you carry fine, if not fine. Do you leave in in pov or as someone early on stated his fire chief had a lock up system built into the station. I was just wondering how other people deal with what they do with there firearms. I don't not carry on a scene with the intentions of playing police officer. Where we are the pd is dispatched also if it is thought to be a dangerous situation and ems or fire is not allowed to enter the zone until the area is safe and secure.

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Permalink Reply by George on February 18, 2011 at 9:49am

Sorry about taking so long to reply. I do not "feel a need" when responding to a call, I just carry all the time. It has become a second nature to have my weapon on my side. When a medical call comes I just respond period. There is no thinking I am going to need my weapon. This is not to say I do not forget to always look at scene safety. But I don't plan on going in any call guns blazing as some suggested.

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Permalink Reply by George on February 18, 2011 at 9:50am

What do you do with your weapon?

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Permalink Reply by George on February 18, 2011 at 9:52am

I dont think anyone is saying it is ok or at least that is not what i meant. I just wanted to know how they deal with there weapon. Do they leave in pov, carry it home, or have a lock up system somewhere.

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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on February 18, 2011 at 10:53am

Pretty sure you started out as Mike B. then you were Johnny B. Good now you are KIssmyAzz. At this point I would question everything you've written including who you are, were and have done. Next I suspect you'll just delete all your replies.

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