If you are a professional FF and are part of a union you may find an article titled  "A Tangled Web Indeed!" interesting.

 Anyone up for such a discussion?

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That's not accurate when it gets to the point that they not only want some of it back, they want more of it back than actually exists.

See our 14 trillion and climing national debt for the results.
In my state, there is no such thing as a closed shop for municipal fire department unions.

We have firefighters who choose to not join, we do not make them pay dues and they reap the benefits of any salary contract raises, benefits, holidays that the union bargained for. We have the right to bill them for the dues, but that is a pain in the butt.

If they get into trouble they are not afforded our lawyers for free. They are allowed access to them but they better hope they saved all that dues money over the years to pay for the lawyers.

Some see it as giving themselves an additional weekly raise, adds up to a little over $1200. a year. So yes when I see a vollie displaying the decal, I am sure to tell them I pay 1200 dollars a year to display that decal and what have they paid?
Ben, Look at the profits of big business, trillions the money was made, built by the workers. They own a bigger share than they are getting.
How is that?

The workers - union or no - have an agreement to work for whatever they make to do the work. The people who fronted the capital to build the buildings, buy the raw materials, build the tools to process the raw materials, train their workforce, etc. took the financial risk. If we're being fair here, the ones that take the lion's share of the risk should deserve the lion's share of the rewards.

As for what happens when people run out of other people's money while getting a bigger share, eventually, they get such a big share that they kill off the Golden Goose. When that happens, you get what's happening in Ireland, Portugal, Spain, and especially in Greece.

Greece has no more money, and their people are protesting and striking in order to get...more of that money that doesn't exist. Striking to get more of something that doesn't exist fits the dictionary definition of "delusional".

I'm sure that throwing bottles and Moletov cocktails - and in one case on the video, shooting a slingshot - at the riot police is somehow going to create more money for the Greek protestors...right?
WOW.... what else is there to say here...

brother i am so with you

i cant post to firefighters for freedom site...getting an error

but here is a letter i sent a while ago.to the marxist's running our union in DC


When looking at things with a biased mindset, you fail to see a bigger picture. When you start talking wages etc, as you do in your letter, you fail to realize that the IAFF is not negotiating contracts for individual unions. Matter of fact, contrary to your analogies in the letter, there have been numerous FD locals around my state who have made more concessions and paying more for pension and HC, that you allude are not happening.


When it comes to politics and who to vote for, realistically, it is not telling you who to vote for, but who supports more closely the ideals of the organization. The very same thing can be said about the NRA, American Legion, etc.

John, spot on brother. It is public record. We signed a 2 year contract extension, with no raises. We have been forced (due to new state legislation) to increase our employee retirement contribution from 9.3% to 11.3%. (with no increased benefits) currently being challenged in a lawsuit)  We signed a deal to keep our contractual verbage in tact and in fact took a 2% pay cut and increase on employee insurance contributions. Alot of people think it is all about more, more, more. Some departments have members who are actually taxpayers in their communities. 


In our state (and many others) there is a huge push to rid unions and go to a "right to work" state. (wait I should say what it really means - "Right to Work for Less")   Our legislators are so sly they tried to push it by that any union out of contract or has one expire in the future they would automatically default to a non-recognized organization and fall under the right to work laws. Therefore tomorrow no verbiage, no past practices, and by the way, no bennies or potentially the employer telling the employee if you want health insurance fund it yourself 100%. 


Unions... (all unions) are not greedy and bad.


Am I the only one seeing the irony here? 

The OP (and blog) as well as another poster in this thread advocate tea party/republican ideologies, decrying the 'socialism' and 'marxism' of democratic ideologies.  Yet, unions in general came about from what was a socialistic, marxist ideology.  Ironic.

And promoting tea party/republican ideologies as better for unions while ignoring the fact that it was (is) tea party/republican politicians who were (are) pushing for the demise of unions and advocating 'right to work' laws is equally ironic.

I don't see this discussion as having anything to do with unions so much as pushing  specific political ideologies. I don't take issue with the posters ideologies, each is entitled to their beliefs but muddying the waters with mixed up ideologies, history, political accusations and falsehoods serves no real purpose other than to promote personal  ideologies.  Moreover if one were to follow the espoused ideologies of the aforementioned, one could kiss all unions goodbye.  Ironic coming from people who are union members.  Kind of like sawing off the branch you happen to be sitting on.

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