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Please post and pass along. We need to support these brothers from Oak Brook, Illinois
The Village
of Oak Brook had an open onslaught of the Oak Brook firefighters at
... a
meeting on Wednesday night. The link is an audio of the meeting.
Listen
at about the 6 minute mark thru at the 22 minute mark. On top of
exploring
many options on how to get rid of and deal with the
firefighters,
they suggest firing a firefighter each month because we
are just
"street people" and suggest that maybe once the firefighter's
wives
leave them and their dogs die (because they're unemployed) the
firefighters
will get the point. They end the firefighter bashing by
laughing
about Deputy Chief Johnson's LODD.
http://www.oak-brook.org/dep_news/audio/CFAC%20Mtg%209-22-10.mp3
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Fabulous Heather Days of Summer on
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First off let me say I am so sorry for the loss of your neighboring Chief. How sad...
And I am so sorry that you department is going through such troubling times. No one should be disrespecting the work of the fire department due to the financial reasons that the town is suffering. Everyone is under financial strain. Their focus is off base.
It sounds like you need a good contract mediator. Email me privately if you want me to suggest one.
The man on the recording who said the horrible things about the families of the firefighters is making no sense - must be he has a bad marriage and his wife would or did leave him during tough times. And he is not making any sense related to the Bell, CA fire department - so do not let that influence you.
I would also say that this is not the forum to post this type of information. While I realize you have every right to publish it - you may just want to mass email it to a bunch of people on here that you trust and ask for their counsel privately - since this public forum can lead to bringing you more trouble (especially personally).
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Get the mediator to help explore suggestions and options... or come up with some of your own...
Just one example...
Several hospitals near in southern california closed due to financial problems. Several local hospitals came up with options for the staff, in an effort to manage financial stress...
One option at a major hospital in southern california:
Either layoff 20% of the staff (out of 13000 staff)
OR
All employees must take a pay cut of 50% for 1 year ONLY (to be re-evaluated at the end of the year)
The hospital employees voted and chose to keep the staff and take the paycut - because being short-staffed leads to injury and layoffs leads to a large number unemployed and over-worked remaining staff.
All pensions stayed in place.
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Permalink Reply by Kevin Cork on
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Thanks for the reply, Heather, I will pass your suggestion on to my brothers. If they need a mediator, I will get in touch.
Kevin
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You can also look up local mediators. If you are concerned about the attitudes in your neighborhood - find a mediator in a larger town nearby.
Nothing that was said was BAD about the fire department - it was a message about financial stress that they are taking out on the fire department. So be careful not to give them any reason to talk bad about the body of work that the fire department does. It does not sound like the majority wants to dismantle the fire department - especially the woman on the recording specifically said she did not think it was reasonable. But she did mention a 10% budget cut.
And while it is a sensitive subject - the woman on the tape has some productive suggestions towards trying to make some changes which can work for all parties.
I know this is tough - but it sounds like you need to step back a little and look at this from the outside:
but it sounds like changes MUST happen because the town is freaking out about their budget
it sounds like they are also upset with the PD and mediation would help you separate the issues with both departments for the discussion with the town
contracts that are in place are always subject to re-negotiation when one party is in distress about the contract - that is the nature of good business
RE-NEGOTIATE
RE-NEGOTIATE
RE-NEGOTIATE
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Permalink Reply by Brian Dumser on
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Can't believe I didn't see this sooner. Oak Brook is about 15 miles south east of me. F.D's all over the region are PO'd about this. A good friend of mine is a LT there. The man overheard on the audio is an attorney, whose done nothing but cause trouble in the Village of Oak Brook, where the average home sells for about $1 million! He wants to close the public library because "poor" people can go there. He views the Police Officers & Firefighters as "street people". Hell of a guy, huh?
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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RE-NEGOTIATE
RE-NEGOTIATE
RE-NEGOTIATE
Not always as simple as that, especially when looking at comparables, budgets and so forth. In this issue, I do believe the reason for this statement was because the FD union suggested a property tax assessment for a source of revenue. Majority of communities out there, that is what happens and how depts do get revenue. In this place, I believe the community doesn't pay such a tax because of sales tax generated by the local shopping mall or something like that. It also should be mentioned that like Brian mentions, this is a very affluent community as well and really aren't hurting for money.
Also, as it is, most FD locals do have their own negotiating team and if IAFF, do have the resources of the IAFF as well. So typically there isn't a need to be calling in some outside mediator, especially if such a person isn't familiar with public safety negotiations and contracts. The problem with re-negotiate, re-negotiate, re-negotiate, is that such a mentality starts to wipe out all the hard earned benefits that were obtained in negotiations. It really isn't that simple, there are many places that DO have funds, but just don't want to spend on public safety, there is no reason to always negotiate with the consistent threat of "tough" budgets.
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Sometimes re-negotiate means that everything ends up staying the same - BUT each side is better informed about the position of the other.
I mediate a lot of conflict and often benefits are added as the parties understand more. And often the aggressor backs down when a neutral walks them through the ramifications of their fight and requires them to evaluate their position more fully.
Negotiate is not equal to give up. It is just having a conversation to try to work through a problem that right now is out of control.
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In the world of contracts, re-negotiate means opening up of contracts and especially if they don't have to be, they shouldn't be opened up. In the world of public sector contracts, the "aggressor" is typically the ones who have no clue about the job they are talking about, but think that such public safety jobs are overpaid etc and that contracts should be renegotiated.....sorry, not the case.
As I mentioned majority of such locals are IAFF and have the benefit of the resources of the IAFF, so the need for an outside mediator isn't typically needed. In fact in most places, there is arbitration and that is when the mediator does come in and decides for one side or the other.
Now there can be "talk" without having to re-negotiate.
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I understand.
And before people strike or get laid off one per month - PERHAPS - the contract should be opened up and looked at and discussion.
People in power are doing some serious posturing in this town - someone needs to do something instead of just have a pissing war.
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I forgot to add, as John mentioned, that the residens in Oak Brook don't pay property taxes due to a huge shopping mall as well as many large businesses that call Oak Brook home.
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And before people strike or get laid off one per month - PERHAPS - the contract should be opened up and looked at and discussion.
If you listened to or watched the videos, this suggestion was made by a resident who is most definately clueless in the world of public safety. This was his, pissed off, suggestion as to how the council should handle the issue against the firefighters. It would be a serious matter if this was a person who was elected to the board, but this is a citizen who is upset about the mere suggestion of a tax to help with revenue (like everywhere else) despite the fact he doesn't pay a property tax.
It is most definately one thing if layoffs were the ONLY possible move for a community, but the fact remains most issues, even with those depts that did lay off, is the fact that communities did so under the guise of "budget issues" but then spend money on frivolous or "wants".
The problem with re-negotiating all the time, is that once you do it for this contract, the pattern is typically set and you see mgmt keep coming back wanting more and more and more, until everything that was fought for is damn near gone. Once such things are given up, rarely do they come back.
In some cases it is easier to say "make the damn cuts and see what happens". You don't think the fallout from such cuts don't matter, ask the Nutter Administration in Philadelphia how the brownout issue is going for him. The image of public sector jobs being overpaid and underworked is a falsehood being perpetuated by many anti-union, and anti-govt candidates, elected officials, and their followers. Whereas reality is such public sector jobs and unions DO understand the "tough times" but also have an obligation to keep what they earned and not just roll over because of falsehoods.
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