The Fire Dept. as a whole, all over the world, is a brotherhood. But are Explorers considered part of this so called "brotherhood??" i was talking with a firefighter and my Explorer Engineer (2 positions under me, also 2nd in command @ our post) and we kinda got into a heavy..."debate" on whether or not Explorers are considered part of the "brotherhood."
I believe they are.

What do you think??

Explorer Capt Marc Hurwitz
Los Angeles CITY Fire Dept.
post 68

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Well then Phillip you may want to reconsider your attitude and manner in here because as it stands you wouldn't make more than a run with me. Overbearing and insufferable come to mind. Had you at least some years and experience I would accept it as coming from a 'brother'. But sorry, I don't see you that way. Complete your firefighter 1, get some time in the saddle and then talk to me about brotherhood.
the only lecutre I gave is when the comment came about someone saying that all firefighters are not connected by the job they do

On the contrary, you started swatting the bees nest first. If you go back to your first post, you mention the comment about FDNY, but your second comment, you decided to single me out and name me into some allegations about stuff I never mentioned. My whole post was referring to explorers and you decided to reply to me, bringing up issues about EMS and so forth around your parts of the country and addressing issues and words you placed, and alluded to me saying as such.

Very "brotherly" don't you think?
Well thats your opinion, but I won't stand for the personal attacks when you have made as many of these feelings known as I have. I never talked to you about the brotherhood and what it must mean to everyone, if you don't consider me your brother I am absolutly fine with that obviously we wouldn't do well together anyway, I wouldn't trust myself in a interior fire either, FF 1 only teaches you that one thing. I have developed a trust with members where I am, but I am not a interior FF and of course they wouldn't to trust me inside, but that is just about half of the apsect of the fire service I've been heavily involved in the rest of it.
But you talked about only certified FF being real firefighters but yet in other places the thought is different, I don't mean to be offensive but obviously different areas of the country have different thoughts but thats just the way one department is, its not right or wrong. I agree with your explorer thoughts and I didn't mean to stomp on your idea, I just seem to drag on about certain things, I'll remember not to do that. But one thing is apparant and this is not directed to any one person but its hard to call anyone brother here becuase of the way we all think differently its nothing personal but jsut the way it is. Sorry for offending anyone here. I can see I drag on about issues.
Amen to that Larry, perfectly said.
But you talked about only certified FF being real firefighters but yet in other places the thought is different, I don't mean to be offensive but obviously different areas of the country have different thoughts but thats just the way one department is

And such things goes directly back to one's personal opinion. I do not share your opinion and I do not view things the same way you do and lecturing about it isn't going to change that. I don't view an "exterior only" firefighter the same way I do someone who is capable of doing all fireground tasks and someone who isn't certified yet, isn't doing the same job. An exterior only person isn't really going to concern themselves with fire behavior and signs of flashover, how to search, really knowing the SCBA, and so forth.

There is a difference between brotherhood and respect and you are confusing the two. As I mentioned earlier in my response, I can respect a person who only does EMS, but I don't consider them a firefighter, because if they are not firefighting, then they are not a FF. Brotherhood becomes the opinion of another person and it is their opinion only, like respect, brotherhood has to be earned, but I can have a different opinion of who I consider a "brother" and who I respect.

Just like in the military, there is a respect amongst most who served for their service and the understanding of knowing the lifestyle. There is a difference to the experiences one has shared amongst those who were intimently involved. There tends to be a different bond of combat vets and those who just served. There is a difference between the jobs one does and the bonds formed working together. While I have a respect for all those who serve, there is a different bond with those I worked closely together with, because the experiences are not the same amongst all.

Same thing with the fire service. I can respect the fact of someone doing the job, but the job really isn't always the same. Just because one does the job though, doesn't mean they should automatically be considered a "brother".
Yes, I can understand that one doesn't consider another a brother until they have known them and feel that can call them that. I myself don't consder myself to the point of being called a brother, because I have shared many experiences but not enough to call myself one.
strong opinions don't you think? I'm done with this conversation. Your personal ideas are your ideas and simply put no one can say another isn't or is a brother that is an ideal you can all whoever you want a brother or not. If someone on here from Connecticut doesn't consider another from New Jersey a brother well then who cares. I think we leanred alot about who considers who a brother.
Well Sir....1st Become a Firefighter, then see if it means something to you to become a member of the "brotherhood" or may be surprised....Stay safe.....Paul
"I think we leanred alot about who considers who a brother."
Exactly. And someone who is not yet a firefighter but simply a "member" is not someone I would call a 'brother.' No matter how righteously indignant he may get.

Funny how when someone disagrees with your personal opinions you get all in a tizzy but then find fault with those who express their own opinions. And only those who's opinions are grounded in actual experience are really valid. Opinions coming from someone who "wants to be a firefighter" is little more than the clanging of a (fire?) bell.

And once again, you've proven that you have no idea what any kind of brotherhood is about. People disagree with you and you judge them to not be of the brotherhood (one which, point in fact you do NOT yet belong to.) And this coming from a person who's day job is 'student'.

And by the way, calling someone arrogant, overbearing or insufferable is not a personal attack but a character assessment, and I've got enough years under my belt to have the wisdom to make that assessment.
Hey Jack....I thought I was the only one that picked up this wanna-be.....hasn't even done Fire 1 yet and he is going to comment about who, when and why someone becomes a brother....Damn...not even a probie yet......LOL
Just call on me brother, when you need a friend . . .

We all need somebody to le-an on.

I just might have a problem that you'll understand . . .

We all need somebody to le-an on.

I just figured we all needed to share a moment of brotherly unity through song . . . continue on with the regular discussion.

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