The Social Network & Community JUST for Firefighters
Part of the Brotherhood?
The Fire Dept. as a whole, all over the world, is a brotherhood. But are Explorers considered part of this so called "brotherhood??" i was talking with a firefighter and my Explorer Engineer (2 positions under me, also 2nd in command @ our post) and we kinda got into a heavy..."debate" on whether or not Explorers are considered part of the "brotherhood."
I believe they are.
What do you think??
Explorer Capt Marc Hurwitz
Los Angeles CITY Fire Dept.
post 68
I believe they are.
What do you think??
Explorer Capt Marc Hurwitz
Los Angeles CITY Fire Dept.
post 68
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Philip J DiMartino on
-
Explorers are different yes, they are not in the department and therefore there is no disputing that they are not part of the true brotherhood, yet. And yes you may be on probation until you complete certain tasks and courses and on the day you join other members may not consider you part of the group but eventually you form a bond or friendship with others and just the other day at our meeting it was said it doesn't matter if you were in one week or 30 years your still thought of the same. Yes brotherhood is not a title or group its something that happens emotionally and with other fellow firefighters and FYI John: There are some depts where I am where you join and you need to choose either a EMS or Firefighting path or both and some of the long standing members are only EMT's but they are still firefighter brothers, NOT considered less. So don't say thier not members until they are certified firefighters. It's just not always the case. Brotherhood is a bond that you know had formed, its not a time period. Wasn't this topic about Explorers anyway, who was anyone to judge about who can be a brother or not. Explorers are not at all the same as probies. A probie can have already met the requirments but are just waiting for there year or whatever to be up.
-
Permalink Reply by Gregory Borg on
-
Marc,
I agree with the thought that explorers, fire science students ET. all are people interested in becoming firefighters. After that step you must serve a probation and prove you can do the job, be trusted, push the nozzle into the dark and heat. Then you can call yourself one of the "brothers" (includes sisters). But like lutan 1 says, don't get hung up on it. Most of the fire service is very accepting.
-
-
This discussion is starting to get me PO and this hasn't been a big one. Just like it has been mentioned everyone has a certain time when they feel they are a brother, a moment when they feel the bond form with another member. One thing no-one has mentioned is maybe after developing a brotherhood with some members maybe other members don't consider you thier brother. Now I know there is this kind of stuff going on at halls and like it or not there may be other members who don't consider you a brother because of the way you think of each other.
-
Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
-
It's funny, people seem to think that "being in the brotherhood" is like learning the secret handshake and password. You're shown it, you're told it and now you're part of it. (You mean you haven't been shown it yet? Curious.)
Here's a thought (my own): The idea of the brotherhood may just have stemmed from the combined concepts of solidarity and collective bargaining. In other words, Workers of the World, Unite.
When one (any) union goes on strike, other related unions will strike or take other sympathetic actions, even without knowing any of the other strikers. One good turn deserves another, as it were. Treating them like they are all your brothers.
So maybe the 'brotherhood' in the fire service is really just an extension of that found in other unionized trades [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=brotherhood+...]
Or, it could be that whole 'it's a special calling', 'priesthood' kind of thing. Just a thought, have at it.
-
-
Well I think its comradery that makes the brotherhood in the fire service when you can be in a room and connect with the others and be able to feel that connection of OK, I belong here now (at least with those people) then you just formed a connection (call it brotherhood) with them. But aren't we all as firefighters all supposed to be each others brothers, we are the brothers of those who died during the attacks on the WTC on 9/11 and brothers of all other firefighters around the world.
The brotherhood connects us becuase of what we do, help the community through Fire, Resuce and EMS services as a duty, not as just a job, its part of your life, if you choose to make it a part of your life. If you join the fire service as just a job then the brotherhood connection is not likely to happen for you. Ever. I agree being in the brotherhood is not something that happens when you "come off probation" and presto your a brother. Its part of who you are and you have to become a brother by forming it with others. I am sure we can all agree with this.
-
-
"If you join the fire service as just a job then the brotherhood connection is not likely to happen for you. Ever."
What if, for example, everyone that you work with feels the same as you, that it's a job. Wouldn't that in itself be a kind of brotherhood? Or is it reserved only for those that think this is like the priesthood?
-
-
I think that in terms of doing the job they are just as honorable indivuiduals as any other firefighter and I guess if thats ends up being the case where eveyone that surrounds you in the station feels the same then a different brotherhood is formed, nothing wrong with doing it just as a job but if you join and find others who do it for other reasons and you stray from an idea of a brotherhood then thats a problem for that person. As for this being a brotherhood just the priesthood with a calling, I would say there are many out there that were called to this to help others and thats a great thing that also had its own brotherhood. Your right I don't think there is just one brotherhood of firefighters there are indviduals and departments out there that may think of it differently then another. But the one that seems to group us all into one is that all firefighters all around the world are brothers for being firefighters but you could say that for a group like priests but they may think of it as something different. I think its a point to ponder.
-
Permalink Reply by Norm Tindell on
-
I lean toward considering a newbie (We do not have explorers) a brother or a sister by virtue of the fact that he or she is making a effort to contribute. If they disappoint me somehow, by not showing up for training or whatever, then my opinion of them changes and they are not considered by me to be brothers or sisters anymore. At that point I will tell them they must work twice as hard to earn my trust. To me it's about work ethic, trust and professionalism.
-
-
You are 100% correct, a probie missing training is like a slap in the face its like they just said screw it, I think that is when you know they are not commited.
-
Permalink Reply by steve masnaghetti ''ziti'' on
-
When i started out in the fire service six years ago we didnt have explorers we had juniors in the area that i am from and they rode calls and participated in drills and fund raisers and attended meetings like any other member. Personaly just from going through that before i became a full firefighter emt i think that they deserve to be a part of it as long as they put there effort into it and do what they are suppose to do. They may not be able to go in and fight fire like we can or do extrications but when you need something like a bottle changed or a hand line rolled up or racking five inch they come in handy and as long as they do that and pay attention to whats going on around them and learn from it than i think they deserve it just cuz they run to the fd when the tones drop just like we do.
-
-
Making that kind of statement then you must not believe that one of the most strong feelings of long distance brotherhood comes from when you see a emblem that honors our fallen brothers of 9/11. So just becuase you never met a fellow firefighter doesn't make him a brother in any sense? I think if one can say all firefighters are brothers and then someone can say there not, then I don't think that a international brotherhood exsits, all it takes is one firefighter to break up that idea.
-
-
Phillip,
Looking I see that you have 6 months of experience and are "going" to take firefighter 1. So how in all of your experience do you feel that you have the right to lecture actual firefighters on what the "brotherhood" is about?
It's more than presumptuous on your part to be making such lofty assumptions and rulings. There have been numerous discussions here in FFN as to that tired old adage that "we all do the same job" and so I'm not going to address that here. What I will address is that until you've actually become a firefighter (at what ever level of standards your department may require), you are in reality not much more than an aficionado.
However good your writing skills may be (and they are pleasantly so) you are speaking from a position of presumption. You presume to know what it's all about yet you clearly are not even close to being there.
While I would certainly attend a LODD funeral for someone (in my department or neighboring ones) the only brotherhood I would experience is that someone died doing the same job I do and I would be there to show my respects. But beyond that, did I help him or her re-roof their house in August? Did I float them a brotherly loan when they were short? Have I babysat their kid for them? Those are things i would do for someone I would consider a friend. Whatever the "brotherhood" is (or isn't) it's an umbrella phrase for people that all (or mostly) do the same thing. And what I just described is friendship. Vastly different. I have 'brothers' that I'm not friends with and conversely. And as for the 'brothers', like Kali pointed out, it's going to be someone that I know has my back without even questioning it. And that comes from the knowledge that they know as much or more than I do.
So your attempts to define and lecture what you think is the brotherhood is nothing more than a nicely worded guesstimate or idealized wish for the way you think things should be. My suggestion, for whatever it may be worth, is to worry more about actually becoming a firefighter and learning the trade and leave the dissertation on brotherhood to someone that maybe has the experience and knowledge from which to speak. I'm not claiming that I am that person but I know that you are not. Nothing personal.
© 2024 Created by Firefighter Nation WebChief.
Powered by
