Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Tim Wood on March 31, 2009 at 8:58pm

Well said we have been down this road. It doesnt change overnight

Permalink Reply by Darren Dodson on April 1, 2009 at 11:15am

Tim, I guess in order to comment are you talking department membership wise or professionally?

Permalink Reply by sylvester harr on April 1, 2009 at 4:39pm

You are so right. If everyone cant figure out that we are all for the community then we will always have that problem. Instead of pointing fingers I would challange everyone to do what you can to help your fellow fire fighters instead of saying how bad they are. We need more inerdepartment training and joint training with neighboring departments. and yes it is true some departments in our county fiight fire totally different than our department. Some still just put the wet stuff on the red stuff, and that dont work anymore.

Permalink Reply by Tim Wood on April 1, 2009 at 5:40pm

Not at all throw in your two cents Derren

Permalink Reply by Darren Dodson on April 2, 2009 at 12:39pm

I completely agree with what George and Sylvester are saying. This isn't just a fire service problem, its everywhere. Look at the PD's and EMS, they have the same issues. Everyone is more important than everyone else. Until everyone recognizes that its "not about them, its about the bigger picture", the issue of growth will never happen. The fire service has two completely separate organizations in this county and they don't share anything or even talk. It amazes me how departments can come together at the time of a call and work as one team, but when it is all over they all go back to being territorial. Is this from inadequacy or jealousy about how a certain department does something that another department doesn't? It seems sometimes like departments are just looking for something to complain about. Quit complaining and start talking. Start training more together. Just maybe you might learn something you might not have known. The Fire School sounds like the first positive step in helping to achieve growth. The bottom line is everyone else needs to get onboard. Growth doesn't happen without cooperation and respect. That has to start at the top, everywhere! Each fireman is proud of the service they do-- for themselves, their department and their community. Every first responder always hopes for nothing but the best for each other; i.e. personal safety, family, etc.. and will come together as one for the worst scenarios. But when nothing is happening everything goes out the window. Seems to me that is when the most needs to be happening to help the growth your seeking. Mutual respect is every bit as important as mutual aid. It shouldn't stop when the scene is over.

Permalink Reply by Tim Wood on April 2, 2009 at 3:58pm

The personal attacks seem to be the main issue and your right Derran. There will always be something said about how somebody does something becouse every department does everything different. you will never get everyone to agree with one issue

Permalink Reply by Max L on April 4, 2009 at 1:21pm

Greetings All,
This is a great question Tim. There are lot of great responses. I think I will be the first one to give a non sunshine answer. I do hope no one takes offense to what I say and I am sure there are some who will. The biggest issue in fire service, hell emergency service is PRIDE. Pure and simple PRIDE. This is my area not yours. This is my call not your. This is how we have always done things. Those guys dont know sh*t because we do it this way. We can sit here and talk the we need to do this we need to do that. There are dept that down grade others. BLAH BLAH BLAH... sadly all it is, is talk. To make it better we need action. The county school coming up is the first big step in getting dept to work together. There are people who have down graded it. Why PRIDE?!?!? lets face the face everyone in here or out there will say my dept is the greatest hands down. If you dont think it perhaps you should look at yourself. We have respect for other dept that we see work hard and excel. There are departments that are better. Hands down they train they do what they do and do it well. MINE being the best ever ;-). we poison each other with trash talking. You have one member that has an issue with another member. Your member runs threw trash talking and saying they said this about us. They did this to us. But does anyone ever take time to look and see is that whats being done. Of course not believing the negative is always easier. I make a challenge to everyone that reads this. We all have a department that we dont work well with or believe we carry. Whos man or women enough to take this challenge. Well here it is.

The Challenge.
Look past own selfish PRIDE issues of they dont know what they are doing or dont train what ever it maybe. Instead of talking about it. DO SOMETHING! Make an effort to work with them. I dont want to hear this well they wont set up a meeting with us they wont come to us shit. We are here and trying to make steps forward to improve things so lets do it. Dont walk in going hello a$$holes. Walk in open minded. Take a night and visit them before their training or after. There is no department in this county issue or not that will send someone packing. Talk with them. Start a relationship more than i see you on scene and think your idiot. Be open to new ways new ideas. This crap of this is how we do it this is how we have done it for 15 years has to go. Its easy to say department X thinks they are the shit and so much better than everyone else. Well envy makes hate. Stop it and move forward. Perhaps department X is better perhaps not. But why not find out why. What if they are what can YOU do to bring your department to match them. What can YOU do to help improve the relationship of your department with them. What can you do to help a department that is not as good as you? Can you help them bring themselves up?

Even as we talk of what we can do are we not here pointing fingers? There will always be a better department out there. There will always be the one that trains harder looks better on calls. The one that shows up to your calls and takes charge. Instead of being pissed that they did and pointing fingers at them for being all powerful. Why not look in the mirror and point the finger. If they can come in and take control did you really have control of the scene???? the answer like it or not is NO. if everyone went hope unhurt not making the LODD lists is it truly that bad?? of course it is because of the PRIDE. Look at what happened to bring the relations to the point. We all have to work together for the RESIDENCES we serve. Do you really think they give two sh*ts about what department X did to department D three years. Of course they dont they want to see PROFESSIOINALS working side by side.

In ending if you think there is a department that bad mouths you. Dont talk about them thinking they are better than you. Find out why. Dont talk about how bad another department sucks. Help them improve. We all need to swallow pride and move forward. The problem is we dont communicate. Open the channels and work things out. Not sure how to do it. Dont want to go to another department alone. Call me, im me, email me catch me on the street whatever the case is. I will go with you. I am not saying i have all the answers. I am not saying that i can work the magic and make things happen. What i am saying is i am person enough to swallow my PRIDE and take the steps forward. If we sit back and do nothing we can say things never change. We can take the steps forward to make change. If it cant be done it cant be done. But we dont have to ask what if. We will know. Truly i believe everyone of us can get along and work together. We all are here for one reason. To help others. Do we want to be the next area to have a LODD and have the world looking in to see the bickering???

Did i go off on a rant or not lol. So there it is. I have made the challenge. Who's man or women enough to step up to it?



Thanks Max.

Permalink Reply by Tim Wood on April 4, 2009 at 7:31pm

max this is why i started this discusion to to get the many views we all have and lets take this small group we have to see what issues are in our own county

Permalink Reply by Max L on April 6, 2009 at 6:38pm

Tim I'm glad i didn't step on toes as you started this. I know i have been guilty as being the poison of breaking down communications a time or two. I don't like the thought of knowing i help with those moments but i understand the frustration of what the other idiots do. I like the thoughts of trying to move forward and fix this. I don't think we will ever have it ironed out completely to many egos to many set in stone kind of people. But i think we can make great leaps and bounds to improve the world make or serve. I'm sure if we ask who ever called us they don't care what so and so did to so and so that we cant work with each other. Trust me i UNDERSTAND the not wanting to work with people who don't have a clue. I wish there was a way we could get more people involved. Even in this how many members are part of this group. Sit back have an opinion yet are afraid to say or do. Or would rather sit back and complain about how people are. We as a group have to make the changes. We as the ones who are trying to improve things have to pick up the slack for them ;-).

George, i don't get out to visit the departments out that way as much as i would like to. Even not so much for the fire side but working for the 15 best ambulance in the county it would help there as well. Hats off to you all for taking the steps. I would like to see more make the effort. The county meetings are fine and well but that is not really so much the place to make the effort. Ego's and pride seem to be the deadly sin for all of us. There are people i don't like but there are things i can learn from them. Doesn't mean they always have the wrong way just because i don't care for them. But everyone loves me right???? lol. I think some people have a problem separating business from person issues as well. I know some people don't care for Chief Chamberlain just because he says whats on his mind. Doest mean he doesn't like you. Just means he doesn't like something you do. I don't know about your way may or may not be an issues some times the truth hurts and instead of fixing or having an open mind things break down.

Pride + Ego = arrogance Openness + Communication = Better Service

Is it me or do i get long winded lol.

Permalink Reply by Tim Wood on April 6, 2009 at 7:07pm

Max I beleive that this can be changed but it might take a generation for it to happen. Look at the age group of who is responding to this discussion. Our generation of firefighters are starting to take control of things these days. AND IM NOT TRYIN TO START A AGE WAR!!! We have to be the ones that are open minded and bring the probies up without brainwashing them into thinkin we are better than you are . In my short time as chief I have learned that my newbies listen too well to what I say I have to watch myself with what I say about anything or anybody. I want them to form thier own opinions. But if our generation can start to get along with each other the next generation will follow . I dont know but it sounds good in theory

Permalink Reply by Max L on April 7, 2009 at 12:53pm

Tim i couldnt agree with you more. Sadly i am still considered one of the young guys at my station. Only a year and a few months from my 20th year lol. I can retire and be a youngling. It is our generation of people that have to make the change. We see that as the world changes the way we did thing 10 years ago is not the way to do them now. Cars are different. Houses are different. Chemicals are different. Its amazing the change that takes place and the “old timers” dont see a need to steer away from the path of how we have done it. It will take time but the bonus is that we are taking charge more and more. Sadly i blew my officer spot with my divorce and bout of depression and what not but ill get it back at some point time lol. There is no trying to start an age war. I've seen guys early 20's wanting to avoid the change. More and more we are losing numbers. And gaining hours responsibilities and trainings standards we have to meet. Sorry to offend some but the state required training is one of the best things they could of come up with. So many bitch about it however if they look there isnt that much to met it. Talk with the boys from across the river and see what its like for them in WVA. Right here right now we are taking the steps to make change. There will never be a time we dont see the x department is better than g department. There will always be a group that trains harder and is a little bit better. The key is to keep the mouth shut and show our brothers how to meet them. Achieve what they have. Once we all can get along know that we are not the no good sob's to department X and we work together with each other. Then we will break the walls. Here we have 20 departments roughly i believe its 17 in this county. At any rate. The county meetings draw small crowds as do the chief's meetings. Here we are online with im sure everyone in the county having someone with internet lol. And yet there are 5 people trying to make the change. Well five talking in this post. Where is Darrin its not like he has work to do lol.. i think we need to brain wash our probies and younger guys. I think we need to show them the right way. The way of being open minded and moving forward. Anyone can stand in the shadows and cast stone. Not many can stand in the light and hit the target.

Permalink Reply by Darren Dodson on April 7, 2009 at 7:24pm

Why do you think it will take a generation? Attitude is contagious. Just like those who complain and have the bandwagoners, don't you think the same would hold true for those trying to promote something positive?

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