New Bomb Threat Stand-Off Chart for Engine Companies

Revised Bomb Threat Stand-Off Chart Download for Engine Companies

These are the revised stand-off distance charts being distributed by the FBI and Homeland Security.

This information needs to be downloaded and placed into your DOT ERG as a reference tool should you encounter one of these situations.

Threat Descriptions, Explosives Capacity, Building Evacuation Distances, and Outdoor Evacuation Distance are provided for the following:
Pipe Bomb (5 LBS)
Suicide Bomber (20 LBS)
Briefcase/Suitcase (50 LBS)
Car (500 LBS)
SUV/Van (1,000 LBS)
Small Moving Van/Delivery Truck (4,000 LBS)
Moving Ban/Water Truck (10,000 LBS)
Semi-Trailer (60,000 LBS)

These capacities are based on the maximum weight of explosive material that could reasonably fit in a container of similar size.

Note: Please download the below PDF File: 20090506_bomb_threat_chart.pdf (1.2 MB)

TCSS, CB

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20090506_bomb_threat_chart.pdf, 633 KB

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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on June 27, 2009 at 2:48pm

thanks so much for looking for that silver lining Brian!

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Permalink Reply by Eric on June 28, 2009 at 8:21pm

Just to add to the post (no, I'm not trying to take away from the humorous portion), one of the huge problems that my unit ran into in Iraq with explosive devices were secondary devices. When something large and appearently destructive is either used to cause some damage, or simply as a diversion/distraction with the actual setup being focused on a secondary device. The issue there is if those that set these explosives up know what the response is going to be and are fully aware that the focus is going to be on that "main" threat, they will typically, also know how to set up a secondary device. The secondary device would typically be the actual main threat. My unit had to change SOP's for reaction to IED, UXO, EOD and other incidents of that nature fairly often, in an attempt to combat that effort.

I just figured I'd add that and hopefully make people aware of that potential threat as well.
Take care and stay safe,
-Eric

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Permalink Reply by Brian Dumser on June 29, 2009 at 7:30pm

That's probably how they'd do it here in CONUS, (CONtinental United States). One device explodes, and then a secondary device explodes once teh first responders (Fire/EMS/Police) get on the scene. Good food for thought. Hooah, stay safe!

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Permalink Reply by Eric on June 29, 2009 at 9:10pm

Absolutely Brian, that's the point that I was trying to make. If they're doing it there, whose to say that some crazy with a little bit of knowledge wouldn't do it here. Like you said, just some food for thought. Hopefully the post raises a little awareness about these possibilities. Hooah (never thought I'd actually use that term again).

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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on June 29, 2009 at 9:16pm

What I was not expecting was getting input from subject matter experts who have dealt with this first hand. If you were able to download the attached PDF file, do you agree with the recommended distances, and are there other resources for firefighters to access to learn more about this? We have not had to really deal with this yet... sure hope we never have to.

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Permalink Reply by Eric on June 29, 2009 at 9:37pm

Captain,
I can certainly download it and look at it. I haven't dealt with anything like this in the emergency services realm (not yet anyway and as you stated, hopefully never will). I have only dealt with incidents along these lines in Iraq. I will see what I can find for resources regarding this subject and post what I can find.
Take Care and Stay Safe,
Eric

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Permalink Reply by Eric on June 30, 2009 at 2:26am

I didn't realize that the PDF already mentions secondary devices, though not exactly the same scenario I was trying to point out, same general concept.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on June 30, 2009 at 2:32am

again, having your skills and background with your military experience makes you an invaluable asset, sure appreciate your time and efforts here.

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Permalink Reply by Eric on June 30, 2009 at 2:55am

I do have to let you know though Captain, I wasn't an EOD guy or anything. I was an infantryman. My biggest encounters as far as explosives go were VBIED's and IED's while on patrols.

Typically it'd either be a hole dug in the ground, then packed with old Iraqi mortar or artillery shells and a variety of detonation methods. Those would be the typical IED's, either roadside or in whichever municipality we'd be patrolling. What they would do is have a series set up, along a road. As we'd drive by, one would go off, our convoy would stagger itself and set up a defensive perimeter, per the SOP's at the time, then the others would be detonated. We'd affectionately call these "daisy chains". We would constantly change the SOP's to change the reaction/distance we would move from the original explosion or undetonated IED, to keep the enemy from knowing how far we would stagger, how to time our movements, etc.

The typical VBIED would be a suicide bomber driving up and detonating the explosives. There were the occasional "unoccupied" vehicles, set to explode via several methods of detonation.

As I mentioned, I was no EOD technician and haven't had experience with any typical "bomb" or homemade explosive. I can only imagine that it's a little bit tougher to acquire military grade ordinance here in the states, than it is for those fighting against us in Iraq and Afghanistan. This is where we run into the problem of the homemade bombs. Comparitively, the Insurgency in Iraq would have a much easier time being able to acquire the explosive munitions, dig a hole, place them in, wait and detonate. People that make their own bombs for the steriotypical bomb threat in the states, so it seems, would have to put in quite a bit more work and study.

I'm not saying that I won't give my point of view, opinion, or what little I do know. I just figured I'd let you know the difference in the explosive threats that I've dealt with compared to what one expects here in the states.
Thank you for your consideration and time.
Stay safe,
-Eric

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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on June 30, 2009 at 3:06am

key point here brother is that you have personally dealt with this stuff. we are not talking about reading an article in a magazine or reading a blog post, you are as close to the real thing as it gets. what's scary is that it is probably just a matter of time before we experience here in the states what you saw and dealt with in the middle east...