I come from a small town in wv. There is ten dept. in the county but one stands out among the rest. This dept refuses to use mutal aid with its neighboring company. The reason the chief won't use mutial aid is because he don't like members under 18 and my dept. has more acctive members. So your thoughts would be appriciated.

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I as a Chief would use MA at any call that warrents it,in PA. children wich is under 18 can not participate in a fire (use of hose lines, power tools or interior work)or rescue(use of power tools,ropes)in short anything that can put them in danger till the age of 18.If I ask for MA and only get 1 qualified person then thats 1 person taken part of a workload and I know how spent a crew can get.
?????my ubove replie was to your " lack of ged /diploma" statement. what post was deleted and to what replie? now im lost??
Your reply that starts, I agree, who in their right mind would use someone under 18? replaced the one I replied to that starts with I said 'minor' which is clearly understood to be under the age of 18. Which was directly beneath your reply I'm referencing.

You made a comment that 18 year olds were not children,
I replied that I had used the word 'minor' which clearly implies <18

You made made a comment about 17 year olds enlisting.
I referred to parental permission and HS/GED.

You made a comment about 18 year olds completing an academy.
I replied that NFPA and OSAH may allow for a 17 year old to take FFI.

You then asked if I really thought that department was operating in a culture of ignorance.
I answered yes.

I can't find your comment to which I responded so I assumed you deleted it and submitted another in it's place.

I'm just saying, it makes for confusion.
Didn't we just discuss this in the leaving school thread?

Mama mia.

Good call by at least one chief in your county.
wow, i replaced that one within 3 minits of posting it due to the fact i misread a previous post, your quick..lol sorry for the confusion........
well sure they have a tool, but sometimes you need to switch tools.... sucks to carry 2 or 3 at one time that you might need.... ie might turn out you want a pike pole when inside but bringing one in case is just to clumsy....
and frankly we have a jr female on our dept (almost 18 now) started when she was 16. and she knows her shit. almost a 1001 fire fighter and has attended numerous calls. almost as many as me. I am glad she has been there for the last nearly 2 years. she has an understanding of SOG, officer interaction, fire behaviour, reading smoke, accountability structuring, placement of apparatus, building tool cribs, tanker shuttle, and can nearly run the pump.... she is going to be the shit when she can really actively participate. Her life was never in any real danger over the years. i bet she makes chief by the time she 25. or walks on to a career hall without problem. i think the jr program is a fantastic idea as long as its done with safety in mind. what beter way to keep our kids off the street and off drugs while giving them all the skills and abilities that go along with being in an organized structured and disciplined group.
i think the jr program is a fantastic idea as long as its done with safety in mind

And that is the key here. I also started as an Explorer, but the reality is there is no reason to be utilizing children on the fireground. Such programs are NOT designed to be a training catalyst for new FF's but instead to give a taste of the job so as to help a kid make the determination if this is something they wish to pursue or not. As such, much of the job can be taught in a safe, controlled, manner WITHOUT having to have kids on the fireground.

Now, I do not go as far as to say that kids shouldn't be able to do ride alongs or observe a scene, but the key there is OBSERVE, not participate. I understand some simple things like changing out bottles, helping with rehab, etc, and even being the occasional "gopher", however, that is the extent of what should be allowed.

The problem you see (and I've seen on this site and others) is how many kids feel ENTITLED to operate on a fireground. No, kids should NOT be manning hoselines, even if exterior. No kids should NOT be throwing ladders. They should NOT be catching hydrants, and so on and so forth. Basically a kid should not be placed in danger. However, there are folks like the OP here which leads to the issue he thinks it is OK to use kids as FF's and upset the neighboring chief won't use them for MA. You have adults who think it is OK for kids to do such things as manniing exterior lines, throwing ladders, hell even going in to do overhaul. Such mindsets speaks volumes for the adults as well.

I really could care less about what one post does or what a certain kid is like in a program and so forth, they just shouldn't be utilized on a fireground. In fact in my opinion there should be a national standard when it comes to junior, explorer, and cadet programs and would prefer to see the rules being the same as the ones by Learning for Life, which is the basis for Exploring.
look i am a Jr. ff and its in my blood to become a firefighter. Jr.Programs are made to learn how the job goes...If you tell a kid (like me) come join us, go on calls and then when we get there just stand there with our thumbs in our @$$ watching? whats the point how can we learn by just standing there watching people have fun? I believe jrs should be able to do something productive like being a ghopher or accountability but i do think this cheif should make a rule that no Jrs. from this company to go out of town okay maybe the whole county should do that that what alot of depts. do and it works out well. Also why is everybody against jrs. these days? the service is losing ppl and if you dont kids at 16-18 they would prob be doing drugs or drinking thats one reason we should have these programs
"Fun" as you call it is serious and sometimes dangerous work...I don't want kids there as I love my Department and don't want to see it go down the tubes if a "kid" gets hurt and we end up in court. I have all I can handle to watch out for myself and my partner I don't need to be looking after someones kid on a fire scene.
Programs are made to learn how the job goes
Yes, oh which can be learned in a controlled setting and not on the fireground.

If you tell a kid (like me) come join us, go on calls and then when we get there just stand there with our thumbs in our @$$ watching?

Yep, that is your role or at least should be.....much can be learned from observing.

whats the point how can we learn by just standing there watching people have fun?

Wah, freaking wah.....it is a fireground, a dangerous place where people have DIED....it isn't a damn amusement park, if you want fun, try Six Flags.

Also why is everybody against jrs. these days? the service is losing ppl

Funny, seems there are many people who still show up for jobs who never had any experience as a junior. Also this isn't about being against juniors, it is juniors who think they are ENTITLED to work on the fireground or be utilized as a FF.

they would prob be doing drugs or drinking thats one reason we should have these programs

There are more programs out there than just junior FF to keep kids from drinking or doing drugs.....but what is the difference in danger if utilizing a junior on a fire scene? They can get killed just the same, they can get injured to a point of never being able to do the job again, may get exposed to toxic fumes or other hazards.

The programs are fine, so long as they are administered properly, meaning there is no reason to have kids working on a fireground.
I understand the age we don't allow people under the age of 18 to join the fire department we have 2 department in my county and it is common practice to page out both to all fires and we still my have only 6 to 8 poeple make a fire and if its close to the county line other volunteer department come help . But ther was a fire in a town with a payed department and they would only request mutial aid from other payed department I was not in the area at the time .But I have hear it from several other departments that when the word got out about the large fire in this town alot of volunteer department had personal staged and ready but they would rather have a payed department come from farther away the use the volunteer departments who they know had peaple staged cause the departments had told them they where there and ready to if they needed them.
well our fire dept is on mutual aid with 3 different firedepts at different times of the day and it gets confusing on which dept to tone out

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