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Masks on or off in the truck?
On a structure fire call, my captain told me to have my mask on but not on air when I get out of the truck. Of course I will follow his directions, but I was wondering if it's better to mask up before making entry. On some calls, captains got off the truck with their mask on, and their inital size up to dispatch was really difficult to understand, their mask was all foggy, and it's hard to understand their directions. That's just my opinion...brothers and sisters, what do you think?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Robert Owens on
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We do not utilize the neck straps. I am not a scientist but breathing ambient air through the mask has never made me more tired.
I disagree with the reduced vision as well if you manitain your nose cup and treat your mask regularly with the anti fogging solution that MSA provides you do not have a foggin problem. Also I have never fallen hit anyone tripped or any other type of accident do to wearing my mask. Not bragging but it just hasnt happened. We have had 7 fires in the past 2 months and I have done everything from boss the rig, to vent a roof, to run a line and have had no problems communicating, or performing.
Its either one of two things. I am either that good or I am properly trained to perfrom like this. Since all 500 members of the FD can do it I am gonna lean towards trainiing.
Your question in my opinion is ridiculous there is a simple reason for the driver not to mask up while enroute to the call.....HE IS THE DRIVER. The driver typically operates in a non IDLH enviroment and perfroms duties such as perfrom water supply and the like.
If you or anyone likes kneeling in the front yard finishing getting dressed while the citizen is wathcing you and wating for you to work then by all means do so. I prefer to come off the apparatus ready to go to work right now.
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Permalink Reply by Jeremy Regehr on
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Now this I agree with. Another person earlier made the point of using the MSA MMRs. All our BAs are the newer MSAs and we never fog on ambient air. It seems this all boils down to the quality of your BA. Previously we had older Cairns units and I totally sympathize with the fogging argument. If you fog up, though, it's because you've got crappy BAs.
Up here in Alberta we fight structure fires in the dead of winter (the very worst possible fogging conditions.) I think i've had fog in my mask maybe once ever with the MSA.
Someone also brought up the CO2 argument. Again, the MSA has a inhale/exhale valve that doesn't allow your air to recirculate.
Finally, if you're not fogged, your voice diaphram works well, and you are not wasting air, why WOULDN'T you want to arrive ready to work? It sure has boosted our PR image alot since we got these MSAs!
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Are you claiming that the mask doesn't reduce your peripheral vision? Every one of them does. Reduced vision equals more risk. The mask narrows your visual field in every direction other than directly ahead. Unless you have some really fantastic antifogging solution, it's not going to help you see through the opaque parts of the mask - everything except for the vision plate.
The folks that make the SCBA masks teach you to don the mask and go on air.
So does the IFSTA Essentials Manual. There is no validated firefighter training program that teaches you to don the mask and walk around trying to breathe ambient air. The folks that make the MSA MMR put the neck straps on the mask for a reason. If there wasn't a reason for the neck straps, there would be no neck strap on the mask.
As for not feeling tired - initially - when rebreathing your CO2, that might be the case, but starting out even a little bit lactic will reduce your stamina, shorten your overall effective work time and make you vulnerable to stress-induced heart attacks. There are studies that show that wearing any SCBA mask without breathing the tank air causes CO2 rebreathing, regardless of design.
It may be faster to exit the rig in the mask, but it's safer to be able to see better.
I'll take safer over faster 100% of the time.
I'll take safer over PR image every time, too.
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So here is a question for you. When you form an RIT does your RIT have masks on or off?
When we form an RIT our RIT all has there masks on with the regulator hanging ready to go on air. That way they can spring into action the moment a firefighter mayday is issued.
Even if you can get your mask on in 10 seconds thats to long in a mayday. But to go by your rationale you would have a firefighter rescue team not ready to rescue anyone.
As for IFSTA and the manufacutrer recommending certain techniques.....really come on IFSTA is the same book that shows guys operating hoselines turned around backwards on a ladder and 90% of the SCBA manufacutrers are not firefighters they do not know what we really do with these units and they do not care they want your money.
Look bottom line is your don't like it and I do like it. We got 500 guys that have been doing this since SCBA's came into our department. No LODD ever in our history no work related cancers nothing, some people might call that luck I attribute it to wearing our masks and not breathing even the tiniest amount of smoke ever. So you can show stats and so can I. It don't matter, do what you do and I will do what I do.
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Permalink Reply by John on
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I would wait to mask up til you are about to make entry into a structure, that way at least all commands could be understandable, not to mention the mask fogging up
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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Devils advocate again Cody:
What if you presented with a non-interior operation, ladder rescue on arrival, dressing and laying in from a hydrant, etc.... gonna do all that with a mask on. Can be done but it is a hinderance. Not to mention the safety aspect of wearing a mask while doing everything that needs to be done on the fireground adds to greater chance of injury, the list goes on and on. Far more than just pulling a line and charging in. Your communication sucks with a mask on, even with a voice amplifier especially if you are outside and need to communicate from any great distance...
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Permalink Reply by Chief 29 on
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Mask on just prior to entry. It is not a very safe or effective act to be putting your mask on before arrival.
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It depends if that window or balconyu you are rescuing them from has smoke coming out of it. Your telling me your gonna expose yourself to the harmful by products of smoke and possibly get cancer by taking in that smoke???? Hardly seems like the responsible thing to do when they provide you with masks and SCBA. I guarentee you go down for smoke inhalation and the first question the workers comp people ask is "was all safety gear being worn appropriatly" Answer no claim denied.
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Our RIT doesn't wear masks, because they get very overheated in the hot weather we have here. I'll take a few seconds to mask up over the RIT team being felled with heat exhaustion long before the MAYDAY sounds every time.
There are a lot of studies that show that it takes 12 or more firefighters at least 18 to 20 minutes to rescue a single firefighter, and that additional MAYDAYS are likely during the attempt. 10 seconds one way or another isn't going to make any difference. There are so few RIT success stories that they are big, big news when they occur.
I prefer to keep the firefighters out of situations where MAYDAYS become necessary. Ditto for the reduced visibility and additional heat stress standing around in a mask without being on air. Your RIT team wouldn't last 10 minutes in July in the black flag heat index conditions we commonly have here if you mask them up. They won't be able to see, either. If you wear your mask in the high heat and humidity in the south, it will not only fog up, but there will be so much moisture inside it you'll think your shower is inside the mask with you.
I seriously question your statement about "not breathing even the tiniest amount of smoke ever", too. Do you guys ever go to a brush or grass fire? Does everyone wear SCBAs for that activity? You've already stated that your drivers don't wear SCBAs. Does the wind ever shift in your city? If it does, then the drivers have breathed smoke.
You're also confusing the publishers that edit photos for IFSTA manuals with the fire trainers that write them. The people that write the standards aren't the ones that put poor photo examples in the texts, they're the ones that write the editors and get them replaced with ones that show things how they should be. And...if you don't trust the people that design and make your SCBAs, why wear them at all??
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Permalink Reply by Mick Shelley on
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No mask on the truck, mask on at entery
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Robert,
Your statement about not wearing all the safety gear resulting in a denied workers comp claim is not accurate. Workers comp claims cover workers injured on the job, regardless of safety gear or safety practice compliance. Other firefighters here have made statements similar to yours in threads like the one about wearing fire gear to wrecks, and those statements have been proven to be inaccurate as well.
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