Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Cap on October 16, 2008 at 4:44pm

Hello,
Our policy is that if they are in school they stay in school. If they are home sick they cannot respond. My beleif is they are students first and the education comes first. We do not allow explorers to use any kind of warning systems on their cars.

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Permalink Reply by FF Schoen on October 16, 2008 at 6:24pm

School is meant for a reason and that is the education of youth. Firefighting, for Juniors or Explorers or whatever they are called has no place in pulling students out of class to go to calls. A short handed department should not have Junior firefighters into the interior operations at that. It should all be exterior or support if anything else. This is just asking for something bad to happen. Firefighting, for juniors should be an understanding of what it takes to be a firefighter... they should not be actively involved in firefighting itself. Until 18 and fully trained and equipped is the way I see it. I don't care to keep seeing attempts to make a fatal an LODD for a Junior or Explorer because they were driving like crazy to get to a call.

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Permalink Reply by Jessica Travis on October 16, 2008 at 8:23pm

haha i dont even think im gonna bring that one up. rusty would hurt himself laughin. lol you kind of had me worried for a second, i was kinda freaked by someone one knowing ppl in bagdad. lol i looked at ur page though and i was like o thats a shelbyville (and henry county) guy, thats how he knows. if i ever though about actually asking i would bring it up with either tony edington or mike roberts, there our advisers, we really dont see rusty much

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Permalink Reply by Jason Lonecke on October 17, 2008 at 7:19am

I think George Shaw said it best.

Kids miss a LOT more class for a lot sillier reasons than giving something back to their community- in fact, many schools REQUIRE a certain amount of community service in order to graduate.

A lot of you guys are talking a lot of smoke about never pulling a junior from class....what about a High school senior who has turned 18....can HE/SHE be pulled from class? They're not juniors anymore, but they're still in school.

It would seem to me that the entire issue should be up to a number of people.

1. The school
2. The Chief
3. The parents

Granted, juniors are not supposed to take part in a call, but I'd rather have them there watching and learning then have them make a mistake later because of something that could have been an educational experience in and of itself.

You say "Education First" - well, isn't going to a scene education?
I'm a certified NYS social studies teacher and I've been working in a school since I graduated college back in '05 (I know, a whopping 3 years) I've seen a lot of kids miss a lot of class for some dopey reasons that were still legitimate in the eyes of the school.

Leaving school early to attend a sports practice or game
Not attending class to babysit a class function
Band lessons
Field trips

To name a few. Allowing a handful of people who have a dedication to something that is probably MORE educational than memorizing the heads of the various mongol dynasties and what sort of food allergies they might have had seems to be much more than a legitimate cause.

I don't deny that education is important. I also know for a fact that there are certain aspects of education that doesn't come from being parked at a desk for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week for 13 years. Most of the schools do too, that's why the practice of releasing juniors on a call is allowed.

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Permalink Reply by Larry Broach on October 17, 2008 at 8:58am

We only pull them from school on large incidents, must have parental permission and school permission, a good gpa, etc. As jrs cannot actively be on the fire line, they are used to drive truck and gopher. This frees up more experienced ff's to be on the line instead of driving a truck.

We are a small department with 14 active firefighters protecting over 600 square miles in Southern Colorado.

The school does not allow them to carry their radios during school, but we can call the school and excuse them.

They are not given permission for lights and sirens until they are 18.

Our one current junior has stated he cannot leave in the mornings but is available in the afternoons (he has shop all afternoon, so it's easier to make that up than say, math).

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Permalink Reply by Sandi Humphfres on October 18, 2008 at 8:05pm

Our dept is basicaly the same. The juniors are not supposed to carry their pagers to school and my kids always let me know if someone was. Its to much of a distraction. As for the courtsy lights we don't use those in our dept. I'm not sure if they are even used anywhere in OR at all. It would be nice to have. Education always has to come first.

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Permalink Reply by CHRIS on October 18, 2008 at 8:19pm

I think the idea of pulling JR's/Explorers from class is ridiculous. There is no call that is drastic enough that a young person should be pulled from school. That is what mutual aid is for. If that is not an option than you have to work with what you have at the present time. Explorers should be working in a limited capacity anyway. Their service is appreciated, but the job can be done without them. Education is so very vital this day and age, they need to be in school preparing for their future. I am a director for our Explorer post and blue lights are absolutely forbidden, as well as responding direct to an alarm. There is to much liability and safety concerns especially with a young person without much driving experience. Their day will come when they can step-up and ride the truck and be a vital part of the fire service. But we need to be teaching and guiding them along the way, not using them as another "body on the rig."

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Permalink Reply by turk182 on October 18, 2008 at 9:43pm

We absolutely will not pull juniors out of school for fire calls we won't even let them go if they stayed home either we told them if you are to sick to go to school then you are to sick to go to fire calls.

I told them that if they get hurt the first question asked is why weren't they in school because if the went to school they would not have gotten hurt.

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Permalink Reply by anne potter on October 18, 2008 at 11:55pm

At no point does our dept pull anyone from school.. I do my nephew use to skip to go on structure fire ,but the dept gave no excuse note for this... Education first ,firefighting sec...

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Permalink Reply by Walter Messer on October 19, 2008 at 12:33am

And a sanction post is different how from a "non sanctioned post?

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Permalink Reply by Michael Vito on October 19, 2008 at 2:17am

Now just my vent on this issue. I see many of the "NEVER" and "EDUCATION FIRST" comments as narrow minded.

With respect sir. The nays in this thread is not just based in NFPA regulations but by experience as well.

I absolutely agree with the rest of the guys here in this thread. Education is FIRST!

I joined the volunteer fire service when I was in college. On my personal note: believe me, I like helping people and making a difference. But also an addiction when participating too much in fire alarms and other calls. At the end point, you won't be too happy to everyone concern when your grades go down. Until one old dog - Fire Chief from the different fire brigade told me. "Your young, you have much to learn and a long journey ahead. Remember this, you are born to this world that there is fire and until you die, there will be always FIRE." Prior to my graduation period, I've ask leave of absence for two months. I discipline my self. NO radios, no FF friends. Then after graduation. I came back and we proudly that I finished my education.

p.s. I do regret of not having a good grade in chemistry class. Ironically, Now I am very interested and like to train in HAZMAT stuff. he he he.

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Permalink Reply by George Shaw on October 19, 2008 at 3:39pm

I know all of our responses on this issue are a waste of time, in the end each town and school will decide what is best for them. I read countless articles that explain how important exposure to certain things at young ages develop a childs ability to learn. Teachers readily admit that there is only so much they can get done in the course of a school day and that parent involvment outside of school is critical in fully developing a child. I question how qualified is a person to become a teacher who graduated high school, spent 4 more years in school(college) and is now responsible to inspire and educate and they themself have never done anything outside of being a student. I always wanted to use this line.........."youve got to be kidding" me if you think for a second a principal or school board would approve of something they didn't see as beneficial for the students in their care. I stand by my previous statement, in that if you think the walls of a school house contain evrything it takes to educate, you are narrow minded.

And get off the cross with the NFPA qoutes. It is funny how people run to the "book" when it supports their position, but yet cities and unions have fought the NFPA standard when something new was being issued that they didn't like.

NFPA says less than 18 is too young.......what does it say about being too old?? There comes a time to hang it up, but some don't. What about fitness? Have you ever gone thru the profiles and photos on this site? There are walking timebombs out there in the fire service. Overweight, out of shape, smoking on scene, and not using proper PPE.

I am amazed with the "not safe" comments. I see that our department is more aware of everyones safety now that we are working with Cadets. While still in high school a student can become active with the National Guard, be exposed to dangerous training situations during their weekend training........and miss a few days of school each year to do so. One of our Cadets leaves for boot camp with the marines right after graduation and is likley to be overseas at this time next year. A few high school athletes die during sporting events/practice each year. Iowa allows kids to get a school driving permit at the age of 14 1/2 years. Kids go to schools that have metal detectors to try and keep out weapons. And we haven't even started talking about drinking or drugs.

As I said in my original post, everything is in place for our Cadets to leave school if called upon. We have not done so, but it's there if needed.

I listened to a lecture once given by a nationaly known professional. He asked people a series of questions where people made statements like "I would never" or "you always have to". With his vast experience in every case was able to point out instances where the "never and always" people had to back track and admit there were exceptions. His ending comment was the words "Never and Always" were the words of a fool. Maybe a little out of context here, but something I gave merit to.

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