The Social Network & Community JUST for Firefighters
Its only a "Garage Fire"...
You've arrived at a Single family residential, there appears to be a "pretty good" working fire located within the garage..but its extending due to a strong wind and the fire loading within the garage. As you can see from the aerial views, this house is located within a fairly dense and common subdivision. All the structures are wood frame, some have asphalt architectural shingles, others have wood shakes. There's a hydrant right in front on the Alpha side. ( Cops just moved their patrol car from the front of it).
So....How big of a problem do you have?
What can you expect in the way of safety concerns related to typical garage fires? ie fire loading, products, materials, exposures, hazards etc. In this incident what does your risk profiling tell you?
Strategy, tactics....take your pick; what are the issues and how are you going to address them?
Logistics...What'll happen if the fire communicates to the Delta exposure and takes command of that structure?
Let's hear about insights on command management, engine ops, truck ops and rescue ops...you make the call.
Lastly... What are the "BIG" picture issues confronting you, IF you can't control the fire to the house of origin and the fire rapidly extends to other exposures ( three or more adjacent structures..due to wind driven fire and your lack of getting ahead of the fire progress tactically) Again, look at the aerial images..what are the operational and safety considerations?
UPDATE: CHECK THE POSTINGS STARTING ON THREAD PAGE FIVE...THE FIRE HAS NOW EXTENDED..."hope you're calling in some additional alarms...."
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Allen Wahlstrom on
-
I like this call Philly, with one exception, where is that front door located?
If it's closest to the street, perfect call for an initial sizeup, if it's next to the garage door, not as much. At least a brief attack on the garage to get enough knockdown to make entry into living quarters.
After entry, Im on the same page as you.
Unfortunatly, it was not his Playboy collection in the garage, however his collection of Eagles Football momentos are or were, I think they are now about 25-50 feet above the garage and leaving in a hurry.
-
Permalink Reply by Christopher J. Naum, SFPE on
-
Well....you know;...it was a (only) a "garage fire".....(LOL)
Lots of great comments, insights and participation...thats what its all about...learning from one another.
New scenario coming tonight or Saturday...
-
Permalink Reply by Patrick Trimble on
-
Is there really a need for a fire curtain or a truck setup to protect exposure "D"? Though there is a lot of fire within the garage, its not one that can't be knocked down quickly with large amounts of water. Our engine is equipped with an electic controlled monitor that the operator would deploy within seconds of establishing a water supply. Or you could use a manual one that is connected to the top of your engine. While that is being conducted, I would have my crew pull an attack line and prepare to make entry into the front of the home which is burning. The monitor could be deployed and knock most of the fire down by the time my team is ready to make entry. Its a "20x20 Garage" at the most. A 1000 gpm will knock the crap out of it!. Then my crew will make entry to search for victims and to stop extension into the home.
My second in engine will take care of my RIT team and if for some reason I needed water on the exposure "D", they could deploy our unmanned, 500 gpm "Blitzfire nozzle". But again, a 1000 gpm will handle the majority of the fully involved garage. At this time the rest of the crew on the second due engine could check for extension on exposure "D".
It is my experiance with water curtains, that they do not block much radiant heat. In my opinion this would be a waste of time and manpower to initially set this up. By the way, everyone is worried about the wind. Did you notice no change in flame direction and very little change in smoke direction? I dont believe that the wind is a major factor.
Come on guys, look at the whole picture. A 1000 gpm within the first few minutes of arrival will take care of the initial exposure problem. Then we can focus on the extension into the original fire structure and the exposure structure.
-
Permalink Reply by FETC on
-
Chris, First off I love how you are putting our minds to the test here at FFN.
Unrelated to your thread because of the clear "residential" neighborhood "Garage Fire" with an attached dwelling but around my way we are concerned for things more industrial even in a residential setting...
especially in the "Garage" I for one have a set of these in my attached garage. I have also seen many illegally stored items like Gas Grilles, Torches, Drums of Methanol, 20 lbs Propane cylinders and numerous gasoline cans post our recent ice storm power outages in the Northeast, where people are storing 50-60 gallons of fuel. This is why I posted sometimes putting the fire out directly is the safest method and removes your position of having a conflagration.
Please check out this picture and incident description.
This incident occurred in Maine. The bottle contained Argon Gas from a torch set and had been in a barn fire that was touched off by a lightning strike. The bottle was NOT directly hit by the lightning but later exploded as the result of the fire exposure and traveled through a wall before landing against another building about 50’ away from the barn.
Bystanders said they could hear the relief valve blow off but it apparently could not relieve the expanding gas fast enough to prevent the explosion. The wall thickness of the steel bottle is nearly ½”. Now that is a Flying Missile.
TCSS
FETC
-
Permalink Reply by Tony P on
-
FETC - What you've posted is something we all need to be aware of. And it really enforces that there is no such thing as 'just a garage fire'. We too have a high percentage of home handymen; tradespeople who work from home; people with hobbies requiring all sorts of equipment. What is in the 'standard' garage? Fuel containers; LPG cylinders; paint; Oxy-Aceteline; Argon as you've just shown us! How about the 44 gallon drum of magnesium filings that I was told about once? A garage fire I mentioned earlier in the thread had a fuel container explode. Luckily no injuries. I've seen photos like yours of a BLEVE at a garage fire, and at a barn fire. We had a firefighter killed n this State when a gas cylinder BLEVE'd and went through the roof like a rocket - he was hit about 200 metres from the fire.
In my earlier post on technique for the scenario fire, I stayed with the concept of RECEO, which is what we try to do. Try to, but it doesn't always happen... Sometimes, on scene, priorities can alter from the 'book'. Yes we'd be getting a crew inside the attached house, as there's always the posibility of civilians inside as well as it's exposure risk. Yes we'd be trying our damndest to get water onto that fire to get it out!. Yes we'd be concerned about fire spread to the downwind house. For us the first crews on scene, from the first two pumpers, would be working their arses off trying to cover those tasks! And the IC would be hoping that the extra support vehicles would be getting close. Very close.
-
-
Thanks for the addendum...
We need to reinforce the fact that there are NO routine fires, calls or incidents. Your example points that out. Keep assessing, communicating, gathering recon etc.. all to support decision-making, risk profiling and adjusting tactical deployment and task assignments.
Great addition to the postings...thanks again.
Chris
-
Permalink Reply by Matthew Brough on
-
We had a shed fire that an acetylene tank did this. Wasn't nearly this bad, but it ruptured. It actually had fallen over during the fire (roof collapsed) and the valve sheared off. Sent a flaming rocket out the back of the structure. NOT COOL!
-
Permalink Reply by sully on
-
If my fire department gets a call like this. and we hear there is a officer(cop) on scene we ask if any people need to be calledout out of there homes. do to heavy fire and smoke. in route to the scene you see a big header when enroute to the call, i wolud call for a second alarm and putting a third on stand by. and make sure we have a ladder quint or some kind of aeral device come ont he first call. dependiung on what is in the garage is key. gas , oil any kind of hazardest materals. this call is going to be a difficult fire to keep under contrl do to wind. if any of the other houses catch on fire the scene has just gone to a big hell in a hay basket.
-
Permalink Reply by John on
-
With our Dept we would have already had a full response of all 5 engine companies and rescue, plus the ladder truck, Battalion would have initially called for mutual aid response, send one crew around the left side to try and make entry with a handline, other engines would have been immeadiatly assigned to protect the exposures, And hope like hell the mutual aid companies get there quick.
Love the scenarios Chris
-
-
Sorry, im not big on smooth bores either. Thats just what our engine is equipped with at the time I would pull on the scene. I would not be afraid to use a fog nozzle, as a matter of fact I would rather use a fog nozzle on this fire. Thanks for correcting me. :)
-
-
Ben, I didn't say anything about pushing the fire. The only place it will push it is out the back.
© 2024 Created by Firefighter Nation WebChief.
Powered by
