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Its only a "Garage Fire"...
You've arrived at a Single family residential, there appears to be a "pretty good" working fire located within the garage..but its extending due to a strong wind and the fire loading within the garage. As you can see from the aerial views, this house is located within a fairly dense and common subdivision. All the structures are wood frame, some have asphalt architectural shingles, others have wood shakes. There's a hydrant right in front on the Alpha side. ( Cops just moved their patrol car from the front of it).
So....How big of a problem do you have?
What can you expect in the way of safety concerns related to typical garage fires? ie fire loading, products, materials, exposures, hazards etc. In this incident what does your risk profiling tell you?
Strategy, tactics....take your pick; what are the issues and how are you going to address them?
Logistics...What'll happen if the fire communicates to the Delta exposure and takes command of that structure?
Let's hear about insights on command management, engine ops, truck ops and rescue ops...you make the call.
Lastly... What are the "BIG" picture issues confronting you, IF you can't control the fire to the house of origin and the fire rapidly extends to other exposures ( three or more adjacent structures..due to wind driven fire and your lack of getting ahead of the fire progress tactically) Again, look at the aerial images..what are the operational and safety considerations?
UPDATE: CHECK THE POSTINGS STARTING ON THREAD PAGE FIVE...THE FIRE HAS NOW EXTENDED..."hope you're calling in some additional alarms...."
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by alan on
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first engine on scene would send a two-man team around to the back, to break a rear window and vent the fire. commanding officer would then send fire police to block the full road the house sits on, leaving only the essential traffic through. i then would check on mutual aid, for the second due engine. would put third arriving engine on the hydrant... run a 2 1/2 inch 50ft hose up the street, pump through that enging, and out through to first on scene. then, send a 4 man team interior through the front door with an attack line, out to the garage, checking for entrapments on the way. would have them sweep through to the garage door, open it for a vent, and attackfrom the exterior. would also have crews protect the other structures, and trees outside.
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Permalink Reply by lisa on
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OOPS THEY DID MOVE THE CAR SORRY .FOR US WE WOULD BE CALLING FOR MUTUAL AID. MEAN WHILE HOSES WOULD BE DEPLOYED AND THE FOGGER ON
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Permalink Reply by Rob Root on
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I would consider this a basic house fire situation within the scope of a first alarm assignment. Garage fires tend to be dirty due to storage of chemicals, unkown fire load and possible cars in the garage. Risk assesment for this would be to limit personnel entering and engaging the garage, I would keep them the house to protect the higher importance of the structure. Strategy:
E1 - Pull preconnect through the front door and attack from unburned into the burned section of the residence, operator secure the hydrant
E2 - upon arrival pull preconnect to the delta side for exposure protection. Split the crew into 2 man teams and have 2 members Begin to attack the front of the garage with respect to members of E1 working inside the house (don't push the fire into the unburned building)
T1 - upon arrival go 2 by 2 and conduct a primary search of the primary residence. Consider laddering the roof in the event of a ventilation hole depending on extension into the main fire building.
E3 - RIT
E4 - Pull preconnect and protect miscellaneous exposures (trees, etc...)
E5 - stage and prepare to respond should the fire jump to additional exposures.
I believe that with a quick rapid, aggressive interior and coordinated attack, this fire should be easily contained and controlled.
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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Kaye on
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These kinds of scenarios inspired us to build simulations to act out possible decisions and consequences. Two of these are immediately relevant:
1. Garage Fire
2. Wood-frame house (asphalt siding)
Rather than tell you what to do, they provide various options so you can escalate/mitigate the incident based on your conditions and protocols.
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Permalink Reply by Scott Kleinschmidt on
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Depending on arrival ( most of out first alarm companys would be about a minute or so apart) SF Dwelling response 3 engines, 1 truck, 2 squads ( 2 man california squads), 1 BC and 1 SO. First due engine and squad place line into service through the house with driver securing his own water.( might be a lost cause, but I am trying to hold the fire long enough for the first due truck to complete a aggresssive primary serach, once this is done I would ask am I doing any good?) One thing that "jumped" out at me was the garden hose in the driveway. Did the homeowner try putting it out and then abandon the garden hose to go in the house and try to safe his stuff? First due truck D/O would set rig for water tower operations while crew did the search.Second due engine/squad would place lines into place for exposure protection. Once I had a primary on the house and crews backed out I would light it up with the deck gun off the first due. Third due engine would drop gut off second hydrant and supply tower and any other lines needed. I would call for a second giving me 2 more engines and a truck.
That would be a start, what happen's next all depends on if it goes out or not.
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Permalink Reply by mike on
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if you cant knock this with 2 enigines, (the second probably not even dropping a line) and 1 maybe 2 trucks for overhaul you have no business calling yourselves firemen. i mean 5 engine? you guys are weak
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Permalink Reply by Mike Adams on
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Owner around, any known dangers inside, such as oils/fuels/etc.
Prevailing winds? Toxins and such?
Exposure to chemicals.
Wish I had a dozer or explosives but .. not going there. (dozer to knock the building down and if possible move it into the street? Explosive, sorry, to much time in the military (future reference just in case). Opps, garage is connected.
Police evac and identify and possible hazards and dangers/fuels. Crowd control.
News control. They are helpful at times, but ....
The neighbors car why not removed?
Car in the garage or ..
Dozer if the fire gets to extreme, but hope no need for a fire break or like. Sorry come from a rural back ground, where fire fighting includes forest fires.
How to remove the connects with the main house if possible? They use electricity or fuel for heat or AC?
Any idea how the fire started?
Prevailing winds for sparks and like.
Hose down the neighbors houses to keep spreading to a minimum.
Clean out the brush if possible around the house, what kind of hedges? We have a lot of black spruce here in Alaska, which is I understand very flammable?
What time of year is this?
How far is that pool from the structure?
Entrance and egress? Control of, so people don't come in and are at risk, but also get people out, but mostly to get trucks/ambulances in/out? No triage so far, but nice to have an ambulance near by. What is the hot, warm and cold zone? House and immediately around it is the hot zone (no humor), the warm, the immediate neighborhood, and cold ..... the entry to the warm is around near that hiways or ... Cops there for crowd control.
How much of the fire area can you bring down and pull into the street?
Heat, Fuel, Accelerant. How to remove one of the three? (heat, wood, oxygen).
Can't use Halon or like, but anyone have a fire proof blanket? Water?
Also, got to think about post fire problems, such as home owners and how much damage you do, and recovery? Such as ripping off those shingles and like of the neighbours. Water sprinklers, or curtain? Not sure what you call it, but to keep the air moist? Southern California, dry?
Sorry, come from a military back ground. As well as rural volunteer EMS, as well as former HAZWOPPER qualified, never used it. Glad its not a refinery.
Anyone have a template or SOP for something like this? Makes it alot easier!?
Mike
Alaska
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Permalink Reply by Keith Bresnahan on
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The fire attack part is pretty simple...
1st handline through the front door to keep fire in check and make sure the interior door to the garage is closed (if still intact);
Portable quick attack monitor (or 2 1/2" handline) to the garage (coordinate with 1st line on when to open up on the garage);
2nd handline to protect the exposure on the D-Side.
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Serious problem, winds seem to be going towards the right, which makes the whole block that way a fuze that will not stop until it is to the road (intersection), or ...
Especially that unfinished structure down the way?
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Mike,
Some FFN members are from departments that may only have one or two-firefighter staffing per engine.
Five engines and a truck might only get them seven or eight firefighters plus a battalion chief.
You might want to rethink that statement.
Two engines, even with four-firrefighter staffing are not enough to handle this incident with any kind of safety margin.
Are you familiar with NFPA 1710?
Ben
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Permalink Reply by Pat Murphy on
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Good thing is, you have a good water supply right there! You can use your 2.5" right of the bat and not stress out.
1st) 1st things first. 2.5" handline with 1 1/8" tip (266 GPM). Knock the garage down RIGHT NOW. If you do not, there will be too much radiant heat for you to make entry into structure. Work smarter, not harder. Knock the upper area of the fire in the garage first from the street.
*FYI, it looks like the fire has made it's way into the attic. Write the garage off now if you already have not. Let 2nd arriving Eng Co. pick it up.
2nd) This is a house fire. WHERE ARE THE PEOPLE??? GET INSIDE AND PROTECT THEM!
1.75" handline into structure through front door. 15/16", 185 GPM. Protect primary egress route. Check for people. Within first 5 feet of doorway, take a look and see if door into kitchen is holding. YOU'LL KNOW PRETTY QUICK. Next, before you do anything else, open ceiling check attic. If no fire in attic, YET, and no extension into main living space from garage into kitchen. Make your way backtoward garage door into kitchen, checking attic as you go until you find fire. You need to draw your "line in the sand". When/if you find fire in the attic, get that line into the attic NOW. Then, order the next line into the attic as well. Have 2nd & 3rd arriving engine companies assist with exposures and overhauling garage fire.
3rd) What this is really??? Its an attic fire! If you loose the attic, you'll lose the whole house.
Extra Credit! Before you start tearing the ceiling down, have the 1st truck, or even the 1st eng co engineer bring in some salvage covers while you are shoving the lines up into the attic. You have a little time still. Take the extar time to do this, and you'll save yourself about 1-1.5 hours of work. Plus, the homeowner will be very happy. So will the BC becuase he'll have to do less "splainin' "to the homeowner.
Key points:
1-This is a very saveable house. Don't get too strung out on the fire that you see in the garage. You're problem in 10 minutes won't be the garage! Again, "Where are the people?"
2-Don't use a master stream. You'll push the fire through the whole house and into and ontop of any trapped occupants.
3-Knock the main source of BTU's, then get inside, see what you have. I bet 30 secs from a 2.5" with a Smooth Bore at 266 GPM will make your life a lot easier fast.
4-Protect the egress points and main hallway; check the door from home into garage.
5-Check attic.
Smooth Bore nozzles. More water. Faster. Easier. Go home. Be happy.
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Permalink Reply by Tony P on
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Art, I don't know if you answered my post or the main, but I'll take it as 'mine'. Our line to the inside may go through the front door, or the back, depending on what it actually looked like. If there was no sign from the inside that the fire had extended into the roof space, we me may or may not pull down the ceiling - shifting the roof tiles is a more common method here to check that area. The fire we had, we did our usual thing and took a 38mm (1 1/2) in through the back door of the garage. That's our usual attack line - though a fire like the one pictured may have a 64mm (2 1/2) put into play.
I'll explain why we don't simply pull ceilings down to check for extension. From what I've seen and read, North American roofs seem to be built with multiple layers of different materials? That's not the case here. We have the framework for the roofing, then one layer of roofing. The most common roofing here is the concrete tile. These tiles are not all fastened to the framework, so are easily pushed up out of the way, and lifted out of place when access is needed. If we know that the fire has extended into the roof space, we'll pull down as much ceiling as we need. No issue there! Another reason we don't simply pull down all the ceilings is that the insurance industry pay most of our bills - they are much happier when we don't do more damage to a structure than the fire is doing... Our save rate is much higher than our carpark creation, so it all works for us.
A 'box alarm' is sonething I get a different feel about from different posters. Which means that I don't really understand the concept. Also we don't use the 'truckies' idea, that seems to be a North American idea. When we get a structure fire call, we (suburban area) respond at least two pumpers from different Stations. The 'home' Station will respond any other pumpers or other vehicles that it has crew for. If a fire is seen to need more people, the IC calls for as many as he/she thinks will be needed. All extra vehicles are responded from the CAD, so the closest available will be called. Our neighbouring Fire Service (there are only two FRS's in the State and we cover most of the State with ours) use the pre-planned 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc Alarm system, we don't, we simply request whatever we think we'll need.
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