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How important is a 360 scene size-up
Here's the question I have for the experience firefighters and probies. How important is a 360 scene size-up?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by NZFirefighter on
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As an Officer this is the single most important thing that can happen at the beginning of a job, it can make or break it as the OIC needs to see what exactly what is happening so he can determine what tactics he will use to deal with the situation.
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Permalink Reply by Norm Tindell on
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One simply cannot underestimate the importance of having an idea where the fire is, what is involved, what's needed, what the hazards are, where utilities are, etc, etc, etc. Without information we cannot make informed decisions.
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Permalink Reply by captnjak on
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Very important. Think about the information we can gather by doing it:
1) Location of fire
2) Extent of fire
3) Presence of occupants at windows who need rescuing and tools required to rescue them
4) Building characteristics not visible from front or sides
5) In multiple dwellings, presence or absence of fire escapes and location of fire escapes
6) Exposure problem not visible from front or sides
I don't think it's necessary that an officer do the 360. Any experienced member can do it. The important thing is to relay info to inside teams and IC in a timely manner. There are some buildings where the roof is the best vantage point for the 360.
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Permalink Reply by 55 TRUCK on
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Captnjak is correct. I would like to comment on his final point about any experienced Fireman doing the 360.
He is correct here too. I have read on here and I have in my time going around the state taking classes, heard and seen. A disturbing practice where the 360 is concerned. In some cases the 360 is done by the IC only on top of this the crews are not allowed to do any real firefighting operations until the 360 is done. In other departments it can only be done by an officer.
The 360 can and should be done by any experienced fireman. As the Capt. pointed out a 360 can be done from the roof as well. On more than one fire the views from windows and doors were used by the Battalion Xo. to give a 360 report from inside the structure.
A proactive RIT team can give the IC a very good 360 report.
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Good point about using the windows of the fire structure. Sometimes it's the best option. I've done it to observe conditions in the rear of attached buildings.
I personally prefer a good exterior report before arrival of RIT on scene. We have fast response times but there is still a delay in RIT because they're not assigned until a unit confirms the structural fire from the scene.
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I agree a good ground 360 is the best. The Battalion Xo/aid. Is the eyes and ears of the Battalion inside the fire. Part of his job is the 360. The Battalion Chiefs pick there Battalion aids. To be a Battalion Xo. You must have 10+ yrs in the companies.
The RIT is the 5th Engine or 3rd Truck. Depending on who arrives first. The RIT should be proactive and do there own 360. This way they can add to the XOs' 360. While looking for egress points and clearing areas of any hazards that may hinder a firefighter exiting the structure.
I know the FDNY like us has alot of industrial comercial structures. The ones that cause the most problems are the large old brick abandoned industrials. Recently we had a fire in one of these. The building covered over 4 acres and was surrounded by a 12 foot secruity fence. The structer contained, old machinery and propane tanks. 5 gallons up to 500+ gallons. The fire went to 3 alarms with extra companies.
The 360 was done by the companies has they got in position at diffrent points around the building and by the Battalion aid and other arriving chiefs. They drove around the building.
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Permalink Reply by Ron King (Fire Chief) on
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Most important.
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Permalink Reply by Jerry Corson on
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thanks for the input as an officer I concur with your opinion I'm enjoying the interaction that I'm getting from everyone about this particular discussion.
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Thanks for your input about this discussion topic, I agree that a good 360 is essential and I'm enjoying the interaction from everyone about this particular discussion.
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Thank you for sharing your views on the importance of a good 360 size-up. As an officer I concur with everything that you said and I'm enjoying the interaction that I'm receiving about this discussion topic, This how we learn so much from others willing to share information.
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Thank you for sharing a response, As an officer, I'm constantly looking for information that is going to make me look at the larger picture not just the immediate one.
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Permalink Reply by Timothy John Dodson on
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Of the utmost importance. There may not be a thing showing on side Alpha, but on side Charlie there may be fire through the walls. So it is extremely important to do a 360 size-up.
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