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Fires in CA
I have been wanting to be a firefighter for several years, put myself through a Basic Fire Academy, myself and many other friends show up at every department test we can along with several hundred to thousands of people... I even work in a fire department full time on the ambulance program.
But today there are huge fires just 5 miles from my own home, and I am watching on TV houses and apartments burn down with no firefighters on scene cause there is not enough resources.
I know I am new to the fire service and still have lots to learn, but I don't get how houses can be burning out of control when there are thousands of people desperately wanting to get out there and help. I know there must be some reasons... but in my mind it doesn't make sense since I wanna be out there helping but instead just watch it on TV.
Here is a view of the smoke over my house this afternoon...
But today there are huge fires just 5 miles from my own home, and I am watching on TV houses and apartments burn down with no firefighters on scene cause there is not enough resources.
I know I am new to the fire service and still have lots to learn, but I don't get how houses can be burning out of control when there are thousands of people desperately wanting to get out there and help. I know there must be some reasons... but in my mind it doesn't make sense since I wanna be out there helping but instead just watch it on TV.
Here is a view of the smoke over my house this afternoon...
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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My opinion on this... "wrong, wrong, wrong..." We learned years ago that waiting for a group of engines to get together to form a strike team, while houses are burning is not the right way to handle an incident of this magnitude. Initial attack engines need to freelance, selecting homes that they feel are salvageable. Burning out areas of unburned fuels between you and the head of the fire can and does direct the fire around the structure sometimes. We also have to make sure that people have been evacuated. One trailer park yesterday was totally wiped out... We are talking 500 trailers... gone... Freelancing engine companies found this part of the fire and did some heroic rescues, using limited resources in the initial attack stage of the incident.
Bottom Line: Initial attack resources need to "get er' done". Once things become more organized and you start getting resources in place, you can start assigning specific things to be accomplished. Self tasking is essential for providing immediate incident mitigation and control and often times sets the tone for the rest of the incident.
TCSS, Mike
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Permalink Reply by Tony P on
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Mike, your two-stage approach is like how we do things. The initial vehicles in will simply attack what they see. While they're doing that, an ICC will be setting up, Strike Teams will be getting mobilised, and 2nd in vehicles will be joining in. But the 2nd in vehicles will be getting further information sending them to where the 1st in think that they'll do most good. Then hopefully some organisation comes into play! But, and it's a big but, our urban interface is nowhere near as large and complex as yours. And we don't get the interface fires every year either! Nor do we want them! Mind you, if we had the population of Ca. I just don't know...
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A comment on Mike's first post on this thread. I'm doing it this way as a reply would get lost in the traffic!
Mike, you have access to the most phenominal photos! I'm going to borrow some of them (I know you've said in the past that that is the reason you post things, so that they can be used by others to learn) to show our Training Officer.
I've recently scared a new recruit during training with the full version of the video I linked to above. Didn't scare her off, but really opened her eyes...
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Permalink Reply by Dennis Brown on
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Well jason the basic training just teaches you about it but if you have not ever been in one its a whole new ball game and with winds at 70 mpr you let it take its cours and do what you can to save what ever you can we get forest fires here and they are not fun to fight . i am sorry that your house is in the way but you never know what that type of fire is going to do my thoughts and prayers go out to CA.
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We recognise that his experience and training covers both wildfire and structural so he's talking our language? And he has the gift of the gab, get's opinions and thoughts down well.
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Permalink Reply by Jay Nicholson on
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The naivety of youth. Lets say we are going to hire those 1000 friend of yours. To put that many people on the payroll is going to cost you $100 million dollars. That's salary,benefits,taxes,insurance and all that other stuff. Fire season in SoCal is year round, so we can't just hire those extra FF for 6 months.
Now lets say we are going to form a brush VFD out of those 1000 FF. We would still need to equip those guys. Lets put 5 guys on a type III engine. That's 200 engines. Still need PPE. Now how are we going to recall those 1000 FF. Personal cell phone, reverse 911. Were are they going to stage. Were are we going to store those 200 engines when they aren't needed. Is this only going to be LA County. Add that to Orange county? San Diego County?( Since Mike is charge in Santa Barbara, I'll let them fend for themselves).
You could have an extra 10000 FF on the line. These fires only get contained when the weather is in our favor. 70+ MPH winds and 5% humidity is always a recipe for a conflagration.
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Permalink Reply by Mark Montgomery on
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Mike, I wasn't against companies self-tasking when all else fails.
My only concern was individuals self-tasking without hooking into a larger group, which is what I was getting vibes of from Jason.
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Hey Mark, I am totally with you on that one then... you know the old saying, "there ain't no i in team...".
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Tony, I am honored that you would want to use my stuff even though most of those photos are posted on local newspaper and television websites. What I am hoping is that you get a flavor as to how involved these incidents are. I am planning on posting some of the cool stuff we have learned and use to resolve these incidents. Take care, Mike
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Don't forget that I'm a giver... and to be honest, have been teaching for over 35 years now. Plus I'm figuring that when I make it down to visit my aussie and kiwi brothers and sisters that I might get invited to share a shrimp on the barbee, fair dinkum?
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"Since Mike is charge in Santa Barbara, I'll let them fend for themselves." Talk about a bums rush... Oh sure, let Santa Barbara take care of itself... Don't worry Jay, we'll be ok... : ) And just for the record, I am just a humble Fire Suppression Captain and Hazmat Specialist. When I work at a fire station, that's what I'm in charge of, just the station, not the entire county and city of Santa Barbara. Makes me think of a Beach Boy song, Wouldn't It Be Nice... Cheers, Mike
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Permalink Reply by Jason Laudadio on
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I know it sounds unrealistic... but isn't there any other plans to put people to work that wanna do the work? Pain on call only as needed maybe? Even strictyl volunteer for the experience.
How dangerous is it gonna be to put the unexperienced guys on just structure protection?
I know we can't have tons of extra fire engines..... but since this is a constant and ongoing problem, maybe CA wildland firefighters need to come up with other ways that more hands can help.
I know... I am showing my inexperience. But I just think things can definitely be handled a little different looking into the future.
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