Firefighter Deaths

I am in a heated discussion with someone and i want to know if i am right. I am responding to a blog where it is claimed that Firefighting is not the most dangerous profession in the U.S. Commercial fishing andf Mining is, firefighting is 13. I for one am glad it is not. A poster who claimes to be a Vet. Firefighter of 35 years says that unless a firefighter dies in (in actual combat) he or she is not a hero

I disagree

If the person is on duty and required to be there and dies, in my book its a LODD.

Now I know this subject is a source of controversy because how does it work with volunteers? I was asked that question and said, "If the member was killed on their way to the firehouse in response to a call in their POV or killed on the appratus while responding and of course killed the scene or returning from a call, thats a LODD

The poster in my case cites that because he was doing some firehouse maintennence (on duty) and fell resulting in his death it was not a LODD. I cited that some Sailors died in their bunks on Dec 7 were they heroes? Some of the 343 firefighters were killed in a building collapse were they heroes? Some of our military in the Pentagon were at desks when they were killed were they heroes? And in my case a paid FF was on a ladder and fell resulting in his death was he a hero? YES, YES, YES and YES. i am demending an apology from him for bashing a dead brother, am i right?

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Permalink Reply by Fabulous Heather Days of Summer on November 16, 2010 at 11:12pm

Shhh... that's our little secret ;-)

(and come on... ya gotta admit it... this place could use a little spice most days)

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Permalink Reply by Gregory Borg on November 16, 2010 at 11:51pm

I won't tell!

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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on November 17, 2010 at 12:28am

I am responding to a blog where it is claimed that Firefighting is not the most dangerous profession in the U.S. Commercial fishing andf Mining is, firefighting is 13.

First off, such stats change often and it does depend upon who is also doing such a study and the criteria being looked at. Earlier this year, there was a study that ranked firefighting as the "Most stressful job".

Being dangerous is one aspect, but really things should be taken in context as well. Meaning there is no doubt a firefighter in a bigger city, with more fires, more calls, will face more dangers than a volunteer in a dept running a handful of calls a year. On the flip side, the danger aspect also comes from the low frequency, high risk catagories, meaning the less you do something, the greater chance for danger as compared to something done regularly. Basically, within the fire service there are many variables to look at and Jack did a great job summing that up.

Now something else Jack mentioned is the criteria for a LODD, and there is a disparity with the 24 hours as well as a disparityin qualifications, training, and activity. (sorry I do not agree with 2 FF's racing back from training and crashing their car and dying as a result a LODD...but because of the rules, that is how they are listed......Same thing could go with a person running a call who sat at the pump panel for a false alarm, goes home, chops firewood and dies from a heart attack.....because it was in the timeline, it would be considered a LODD)

Now, look at commercial fishing and mining. Neither of which I believe has a 24 hour window after working. The dangers faced are typically the same across the fields....storms for fishing, cave ins, gas (dust) explosions etc for mining. Also, it depends on the criteria also being looked at for firefighting, if it is just fire suppression, but if EMS, tech rescue, and HAZMAT are also included. So really it doesn't matter what the ranking is.

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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on November 17, 2010 at 12:31am

Well stated Jack and goes towards perspective and criteria. Also it depends on the aspects of firefighting being looked at, if it is just suppression or if EMS, HAZMAT, tech rescue, etc are also included.

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Permalink Reply by benny edmondson on November 17, 2010 at 2:07am

i agree with u if he was on call wehter it be maintenance or other wise it,s lodd thew poster who siad it is not has no clue what they are speaking of look underline of duty death it show,s when and how the passed away the said person need,s to apologize for he or she is wrong. (quote) page from line of duty death) Name: Daniel C. Wilson
Rank: Firefighter
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Status: Volunteer
Years of Service: 32
Date of Incident: 10/19/2010
Time of Incident: Pending
Date of Death: 10/23/2010
Fire Department: Jerusalem Township Fire Department
Address: 9501 Jerusalem Rd, Curtice, OH 43412

Fire Department Chief: Harold Stanton
Fire Department Website: http://www.twp.jerusalem.oh.us/Departments/FireDepartment/tabid/57/...

Incident Description: On October 19, 2010 at approximately 1515 hours, Firefighter Wilson responded for an EMS call. At the conclusion of the call, he returned home. It was noted that he appeared to be feeling poorly when he left. On October 20, 2010 at approximately 1000 hours, he requested EMS to his residence due to feeling ill. He was transported to the hospital where he underwent emergency heart surgery and remained hospitalized until his death on 10/23/2010./ this guy was at home /

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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on November 17, 2010 at 10:23am

thew poster who siad it is not has no clue what they are speaking of look underline of duty death it show,s when and how the passed away the said person need,s to apologize for he or she is wrong.

responded for an EMS call. At the conclusion of the call, he returned home. It was noted that he appeared to be feeling poorly when he left. On October 20, 2010 at approximately 1000 hours, he requested EMS to his residence due to feeling ill. He was transported to the hospital where he underwent emergency heart surgery and remained hospitalized until his death

Benny, for the sake of discussion and to take a look from a different perspective......such a description is exactly why there can be controversy here. The person here responded for an EMS call (he could have just been the driver for all we know here) and was reported feeling "poorly" when he left. He gets picked up later, has heart surgery and dies a couple days later.

Well, take a look from an outside perspective, how is the job really considered more dangerous? How is this considered a LODD to a fire service outsider? The EMS call really can be considered a coincidence here and not the cause. Who is to say that it was the result of the EMS call which led to the death? How do we not know the same results would have happened had the EMS call never occurred?

Pretty hard for someone to use this info, stomp their feet, and demand an apology. This is a LODD because of the rules established, but it would be tough to argue for any certainty, the EMS call was the result of the LODD.

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Permalink Reply by Brian Dumser on November 18, 2010 at 9:54pm

"A poster who claimes to be a Vet. Firefighter of 35 years says that unless a firefighter dies in (in actual combat) he or she is not a hero"

That's just his opinion. It only matters what the law considers a LODD. His opinion means NOTHING.

As for being a "hero"? I think that word is thrown around far too much where Firefighters are concerned.