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Fire/EMS Safety at Shooting Scenes. Please Read
Jackson city councilman Kenneth Stokes thinks the city needs to change ambulance companies or go into the ambulance business.
He's upset that a shooting victim had to wait 21 minutes for help last Friday night. The shooting was at the Pleasant Oaks Apartments on Bailey Avenue in the inner city at about 10 p.m.
Stokes says the victim, 25- year-old Lee Joseph Martin, had to wait 23 minutes for help because police had not secured the shooting scene. He held a news conference at the apartment complex.
"You have got to take the risk. You can't let citizens die. Because if you are wounded, you say I'm not safe. Now if you can't assume the risk then give it to the person who can assume the risk," said Stokes.
Monique Watson, the mother-in-law of the victim, had called councilman Stokes about the incident. "If you are scared to come over here and get somebody off the ground that's hurt, then you don't need that job."
AMR spokesman Jim Pollard said it is national policy that ambulances do not go into shooting scenes until they are sure the scene is secure and that is to protect emergency personnel.
"It's a policy of virtually an ambulance service anywhere in the nation, to protect the medics and EMT's, if an EMT or medic gets hurt, they can't help anyone else," said Pollard.
Copied this from FFclosecalls.com
He's upset that a shooting victim had to wait 21 minutes for help last Friday night. The shooting was at the Pleasant Oaks Apartments on Bailey Avenue in the inner city at about 10 p.m.
Stokes says the victim, 25- year-old Lee Joseph Martin, had to wait 23 minutes for help because police had not secured the shooting scene. He held a news conference at the apartment complex.
"You have got to take the risk. You can't let citizens die. Because if you are wounded, you say I'm not safe. Now if you can't assume the risk then give it to the person who can assume the risk," said Stokes.
Monique Watson, the mother-in-law of the victim, had called councilman Stokes about the incident. "If you are scared to come over here and get somebody off the ground that's hurt, then you don't need that job."
AMR spokesman Jim Pollard said it is national policy that ambulances do not go into shooting scenes until they are sure the scene is secure and that is to protect emergency personnel.
"It's a policy of virtually an ambulance service anywhere in the nation, to protect the medics and EMT's, if an EMT or medic gets hurt, they can't help anyone else," said Pollard.
Copied this from FFclosecalls.com
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John Dobson on
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Been placed in that position too many times. Sent to a unsafe scene, guns and fights and was told someone fell or a injured leg. But its was infomation that was not passed on by are dispatch, not fun.
What happens when they get injured? Well you call for more EMS and wait. When they arrive who do you think there going to tend to first? How manys EMS crews are going to be ready to respond? Won't this take more time? Just like we say "If you get injured you pull resources from the original victim", So don't be a hero.
I am all for helping someone, But if something happens to me what about my faimily? We are a hero for the day,fancy funeral then forgot by the public and so is my family.
We are taught bystanders are hazzards try to pressure you into things you should not do. I think this councilman is a great example of this.
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Permalink Reply by Fabulous Heather Days of Summer on
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OMG - I would have wet myself...
F'N Crazy People
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Permalink Reply by John on
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Thats the way it is all over for Responders, we won't go near unless the scene is safe. Can't help anyone if you get shot too!!!!!
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Permalink Reply by John E Badjar Sr on
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Amen. My people are no going in until the scene is safe
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Permalink Reply by Station10Capt106 on
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I think the councilman needs a little education and a lot of common sense. It's not about wanting to do the job, its about wanting to stay alive to be able to do the job again tomorrow.
Unfortunately the only way to reach politicians like this is to hit them in the pocketbook. He will probably not change his attitude about it until the town has to pay several multi-million dollar wrongful death lawsuits over an incident that could be avoided by doing the right thing and staging until the scene is safe.
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Permalink Reply by JOSEPH MONTONDO on
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This guy is a nut. If he wants me to go on scene while there is a shooter that has not been caught. Then by all means give me a comision card, vest, and we will start packing on the ems rig. Cause if i have to put myself in that position to keep my job then they have to provide me a way to protect myself. oh and thier going to have to put four personel to a rig. Two to watch our backs and two to work on the pt.
This councilman is crazy. He apparently has no idea that emt's and firefighters dont take active shooter classes and ppct and hand to hand defense in there schools and academys. Its too bad he cant read these commits. would like to hear his replies to this!!!!!
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Permalink Reply by Russ on
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The first rule of rescue is dont become a victim. this councilman is a real piece of work. he dares criticize the responders yet does not offer any realistic soultion except for "run in and die because thats what you get paied for". an ems crew where i live was criticized some time ago for not jumping into a body of water (which they were not trained to do or equipped) some folks drowned and they got ripped for it. later that year they got ripped again for "not running" to an injured person in front of a crowd of people. EMS crews are not trained to become "combatantants" and they should not (see my first sentence). LEO's should secure the scene and provide fire rescue and EMS a safe atmosphere to work in PERIOD!....GREAT response Ralph!
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Permalink Reply by frank white on
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I say ask him if would go into a unsecure scene with a shooter still lose
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Next time it happens - he is our FIRST CALL
If he makes it out of the scene alive WITH the patient/s, then we can take over from there...
He can be our front-line of defense... No need to wait for SWAT...
23 minutes is nothing... i have protected a scene for hours until they could ensure scene safety... this guy has NO awareness of REAL LIFE... it is not like on tv - the heros don't always live!!!
and I have found myself in the middle of un-secured scenes several times... and needed to quickly report and retreat... the scene is NOT as was initially reported !!!
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Permalink Reply by Willie Bermingham on
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Where I am stationed we respond in similar fashion to these type of calls. Our control room rarely get enough solid info to us en-route and often we land in the middle of unsafe scenes. Two days ago in my district the Gardai (Irelands police force) who are mostly unarmed recovered four Ingram MAC 10s loaded and ready for use. We are not expected to go in to any shooting or row unless scene is cleared by Garda and quite often they wait for armed response. This politician seems to be full of shit and like a babys nappy, should be changed for a new one soon!
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Permalink Reply by 55 TRUCK on
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We have fire houses with bullet holes in them. Biggest problem is that we get a call for a injured person, it's not till you get to the scene that you find out they've been shot. On occasion the bangers are very courtiouse..They'll bring the shooting victem to the fire house. Basicly they drive up to the end of the pad blare the horn and push the person out of the vehicle.
Unless there's still bullet pushing goin on we'll go in.
We did have a shoot out a few yrs ago beteen the Cops and some nut with a couple pistole and a SKS. This was about 2am and two of the five officers were hit. The Ambulance was staged away from the scene. One of our engines was closer they could see one of the downed officers. The Engine drove into the fire fight and pulled the officer into the engine then backed out.
I would say that if there are bullets flying then you might want to wait...If the shootings stopped use your own judgement. Never ever under any conditions take the advice of a polatician....There idiots.
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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Maybe the councilman needs to become EMT if he is willing to run into a unsecured shooting scene.
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