I finally  received a certificate  and licenses  to be a certified EMR. thru hard work and classes. My question is my Chief want us that passed this course and received certificate and licenses to teach our firefighters what do do in a medical call situation if one of the ECA people,e are not there.. What can they do or what are they allowed to do if not trained by state? What should i teach them?

thank you,


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No more than an average joe passing by on the street would do.  Perhaps hold pressure on a bleed, place the patient in a comfortable position or CPR if they're certified.  In our deparment on medical calls non-certified don't run unless instructed to do so by a certified individual.  If they do they are not to approach the scene until a "First Responder" (Tennessee's term for EMR) is on scene.

I would be very cautions with this.  being an EMR does not qualify you as an instructor.  By having you teach the firefighters first aid your department is likely opening up a HUGE liability if someone uses it and the call has a poor outcome regardless of if it's due to the firefighters actions or not.

one exception that everyone should know is how to hold C-Spine on a patient though.

What  can i do if the Chief saids to do it and he wants 6 weeks of it?

Do you feel as if you're prepared, able and certified to do what he's asking?

and the 6 weeks number scares me a little.  All of the skills that someone who is not EMR certified should be doing on scene can be taught in a basic first aid class which takes something like 4 hours.  How many actual class room hours is he asking you for? 

In your shoes I'd contact either local Red Cross for a first aid class or your local EMS department and ask them to send someone in to talk about what they will and won't allow non certified individuals to do with patients.  Once they've given you a guideline you might be more prepared to do it.  In my area the list for non certified personnel is very short and basically includes handling immediate threats to life.
Things like

Chest compressions and or rescue breathing with a BVM

C-Spine control
Controlling catastrophic bleeding
and that's about it. 

Non certified personnel can also provide lift assistance under the instruction of certified personnel.

a couple of hours thats all. thank you for the info.

no i dont think its  a good thing to do and no i am not an instructor  or the other ECA that has to teach it, and we have a fellow  that took the class  but didn't make the certificate, national registry or Licenses or  skills but The Chief insist that he be on all our Med calls I don't understand that...ugh!!

I agree with Eric on the Red Cross aspect or similar entity to get to teach such a class. Your chief is setting you and the entire dept up for failure by expecting people who just completed such a class to pass the info off to others who have not. If you aren't certified instructors, or taken a "train the trainer" course, you are opening yourself up to liabilities, especially if people start doing things wrong on real people. Your chief is setting the entire dept up for failure, especially in regards to training records and so forth and again if someone does something wrong.


What  can i do if the Chief saids to do it and he wants 6 weeks of it?


Say NO! If the chief wants to set something up with a reconized training entity, then fine. When asking for people, who aren't trainers, to train others, who aren't trained at all, you are setting yourself up and dept up for problems.


If someone were to sue the dept, the first thing looked at is training records. If you aren't a certified trainer and the personnel not trained to standards, then the dept is essentially screwed. No "good samaritan" law is going to protect you. If a dept member is hurt or killed, the first thing looked at is training records and there can be criminal liability attached to the trainer and chief.


Essentially don't mess around with such stuff. Tell the chief you are not a certified instructor and in order to do something right, they need to get the right people in to train and certify personnel.


Than u for info.. its appreciated!

Another idea: Ask the local emergency medical service that runs ambulance in your area to send someone to your meetings to teach the basics. Anything EMR's do at your department benefits them and their patients, so they should be willing to help out.

When you take on the roll of instructor you take on a lot of liability, especially when it comes to patient care.

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