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Drinking in the Fire House
Last week I went to lunch with some co-workers (non-FFs) and the discussion rolled around to my involvement with the FD. One of the guys said "well, you must have guys that just join the department for the drinking". This recalled to mind another comment by someone, some years back, who swore that ALL volunteer FFs drank at the station and "those who say they don't are lying".
In my department you might find a 6-pack or two if you look in every nook and cranny, but we really don't touch the stuff on drill night or after calls, or meetings. There just isn't stuff to touch. In the late 80s we had the converted soda machine that dispensed several brands of beer but we got rid of it because the Jr. FFs were becoming interested in the stuff.
So - what is your department policy or practice regarding alcohol in the firehouse?
NOTE: 10/16/09: I started this thread over two years ago to gather input from other volunteer firefighters on FFN as it was then. The new theme is, what steps can we take to make America's fire houses 100% dry?
In my department you might find a 6-pack or two if you look in every nook and cranny, but we really don't touch the stuff on drill night or after calls, or meetings. There just isn't stuff to touch. In the late 80s we had the converted soda machine that dispensed several brands of beer but we got rid of it because the Jr. FFs were becoming interested in the stuff.
So - what is your department policy or practice regarding alcohol in the firehouse?
NOTE: 10/16/09: I started this thread over two years ago to gather input from other volunteer firefighters on FFN as it was then. The new theme is, what steps can we take to make America's fire houses 100% dry?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Scarecrow on
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First thing everyone needs to remember is that there is a huge difference between having a couple of beers and being drunk. This is where this debate always gets all kinds of screwed up. Absolutely no one advocates or argues for the right to show up to a call drunk. Zero tolerance is a feel good thing that really isn't all that well defined. I can drink a single beer and it will have the same effect as taking a single pain killer. 2 beers = 2 pain killers, and so on. Also, it takes about 1 hour for the body to metabolize the alcohol from one drink. Think about that when you see those goofy rules of 8 hours, 12 hours and 24 hours from bottle to the throttle.
Studies have shown that a beer or two a day or a glass of wine are actually beneficial for your health. So why not allow some in moderation. It is actually no different than taking allergy meds or diet pills. I have actually taken allergy meds in excess and it gets the heart going as well as messes up your head. And I have seen people who take diet pills in excess. In fact, while in service in Germany, I knew of guys who would go to the German stores and buy diet drops. Instead of using 4 or 5 they would consume 80 or 90. These guys would be up for days. And really, there are all kinds of things we eat and drink that affect our ability to perform. Anything in moderation is OK. Taken to the excess is when anything becomes a problem.
And let us say no grants for firehouses with bars or alcohol on premise. Many places would simply build a small clubhouse or off-site facility and move there. Or they might just move to the local Foreign Legion, Eagles, Moose, or whatever organization and meet there.
It is more realistic to accept that people will be taking drugs (over the counter and prescription) as well drinking beverages (alcoholic, caffeinated, power drinks, etc) that will affect their performance. It is then more wise to educate the folks involved to watch for folks who are unable to perform as needed. You also need to create the attitude that you can not show up if you have taken too much of anything to the point it affects your ability to perform. In fact, I would prefer that folks who have just been through a hard workout or a hard days work stay home as well, their physical ability to perform is greatly diminished.
It's funny how we put such emphasis on no drinking but could care less that guys drive the big red trucks like they were in the Daytona 500.
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Permalink Reply by Randy on
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How can we ever lower LODD if departments around the country alow their members to consume alcohol of any kind on station.The temptation that "I only had one beer,so I'm OK to drive that engine with the 4-5 others lives on the line" is too great.We have to be at the top of our game at all times.If I've had a beer,I do not respond.Just have to miss that one.I'm 6'5" @ 260lbs and one beer probably would not affect my judgement,but,I'm not willing to risk the lives of my comrades.Let's say you had that one beer and you drive the truck and you are involved in an MVA that's not your fault.Nobody gets hurt,but you have to talk to the cops.Why go through the hassle of explaning"It was only one beer".Remember PTOA
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Permalink Reply by divo on
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if your department doesnt allow it or has strict guidelines on alcohol, consider yourself lucky. my department is a different story. we have tried to control it, but to no avail. this is mainly a problem with the old dogs who come from the old school of the firehouse being a country club enviorment. it frustrates some, including me, to no end. i have thought about getting the state or insurance companies involved. what can be done, before someone gets killed?
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Permalink Reply by justin reeder on
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We have a 0 tolerence for anything like that on the property.
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what do they say...... cant teach an old dog new tricks......... i wish we could change their view on it.
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Permalink Reply by Joe Desisto on
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Apparently some of us take our jobs more serious than others. If I am willing to pull a fellow ff out of a building I would expect a sober and fully coherant ff ready to do the same
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but it isn't just the "old guys". That might very well be the case on your fire department, but nationally, it transcends all age groups.
Why is it that it's always the "old guys" that are "detrimental" to fire departments? If it wasn't for the old guys, there wouldn't be "new guys". The old guys are dying of cancer, because they didn't have the protective gear that we have now. Without "old guys", there would be no history or tradition in the fire service.
And on our department, if it weren't for the old guys-the 40 to 50 age group, we would not have the numbers that we have. While everyone is so high on the young guys, we are in the process of removing TWO; one is 23 and the other is 25. Why? Because they don't come to meetings, training or fire calls.
We shouldn't "broad brush" something simply because it seems fashionable.
I know plenty of people-YOUNG AND OLD-who have drinking "problems".
It's a problem and that's a fact.
Art
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Permalink Reply by Deputy Chief Kevin D. Quinn on
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The fire service cannot tolerate alcohol or substance use. The combination of fire ground operations, apparatus functioning and impaired individuals is a recipe for disaster. It is the responsibility of every firefighter, officer and commander to ensure zero tolerance. Drinking, driving, fire ground operations; Not on my watch!
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Permalink Reply by Joel C Kelley on
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I agree with you on every point, especially the driving issue. But I think it is not in the best interest of our profession to even paint an image that says we condone at risk behaviors such as alcohol use on duty. Our PR as an industry is one of Moral responsibility. How will we ever lower the reats of DUI in this country if we don't set an example? Not that we alone could be the example, but we can certainly be a leader in the crusade.
Okay, so the bars move off property, good! that is a step in the right direction. Nobody objects to FF's drinking off duty and off premises, it is on duty and on premises that is the problem.
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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on
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Art, there are apparently still some unenlightened departments out there. Check your PMs.
JS
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Joel:
Volunteer firefighters who are not on departments with a duty schedule are technically never "off duty". The only time most are "off duty" is when they are on duty at their regular jobs. That's when they won't be drinking. When they are not at their regular jobs, they might be drinking. If they drink too much, they do stupid things. Unfortunately, one of the stupid things that they do is to respond if their pager goes off, because they believe that they are sober enough to go to the call.
Just like they are lured by the drop dead gorgeous blond at the end of the bar, they are captivated at the thought of catching a big fire...sober OR drunk.
Again; the problem isn't drinking. The PROBLEM is drinking and RESPONDING.
Art
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agreed, the old guys are an irreplaceable faction of wisdom and experience. i have learned more from the old guys than from books or training, but the fact remains that on my department it is the old guys that take full advantage of the situation. look i am not trying to debate the old versus the new, i am looking for objective insight on how to change the problem with the department i am with.
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