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Drinking in the Fire House
Last week I went to lunch with some co-workers (non-FFs) and the discussion rolled around to my involvement with the FD. One of the guys said "well, you must have guys that just join the department for the drinking". This recalled to mind another comment by someone, some years back, who swore that ALL volunteer FFs drank at the station and "those who say they don't are lying".
In my department you might find a 6-pack or two if you look in every nook and cranny, but we really don't touch the stuff on drill night or after calls, or meetings. There just isn't stuff to touch. In the late 80s we had the converted soda machine that dispensed several brands of beer but we got rid of it because the Jr. FFs were becoming interested in the stuff.
So - what is your department policy or practice regarding alcohol in the firehouse?
NOTE: 10/16/09: I started this thread over two years ago to gather input from other volunteer firefighters on FFN as it was then. The new theme is, what steps can we take to make America's fire houses 100% dry?
In my department you might find a 6-pack or two if you look in every nook and cranny, but we really don't touch the stuff on drill night or after calls, or meetings. There just isn't stuff to touch. In the late 80s we had the converted soda machine that dispensed several brands of beer but we got rid of it because the Jr. FFs were becoming interested in the stuff.
So - what is your department policy or practice regarding alcohol in the firehouse?
NOTE: 10/16/09: I started this thread over two years ago to gather input from other volunteer firefighters on FFN as it was then. The new theme is, what steps can we take to make America's fire houses 100% dry?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Greenman on
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Two extremes...the guy who has nothing constrcutive to add, so he makes a low-brow joke, and the guy who is so full of himself that he only refers to alcoholic beverages as "ETOH."
Neither is really moving the discussion forward.
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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on
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If per chance this post is true, your not only a risk to yourself and the rest of the firefighters in your house, your an absolute black eye for the fire service. It is people like you that give the hard working firefighters a bad name
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Thats not a bad policy. Here we aren't allowed alcohol in the firehouse period, end of story. If we have our awards banquet (located at a banquet hall off site), we have automatic mutual aid coverage, and only sober non drinking members are allowed to go to the call or they face a harsh penalty.
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Permalink Reply by Yank2441 on
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Everyone should read this with great understanding:
The fire service has been through enough in past years without being painted as a bunch of drunks who sit around the fire house playing cards all night like the "Rescue Me" show paints us. It is hard enough to get people to understand why we need the man power that we currently have without a fire fighter showing up drunk for a call. Trying to convince the public why we need the drunk man power we have is an even harder task.
The point that I am making is that the public image of beer and an on duty fire department member should not even be in our thought process.
NO BEER OR ALCOHOL OF ANY TYPE, AND NO DRUGS!
We have a job to do! Sober people get killed performing fire fighters duties! A person under the influence of alcohol is more likely to dehydrate, pass out, get disoriented, and react to problems in a less timely manner than a person who is sober!
Thats the cold hard truth!
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Joel,
I find it rather patronizing that you always and only refer to alcoholic beverages as "ETOH." Perhaps you have personal reasons for doing this, but the effect is that you come across as a snob.
The questions you asked in this post don't really stir the pot at all. The answers you're going to get are going to generally be a re-hash of the previous 17 pages of comments wherein people say their department has a "Zero Tolerance" policy, or "if you show-up after drinking you're terminated, 'no if's an's or but's.'" Which are probably generally accurate from a lay perspective.
My answers to your questions are: 1) The industry has been creating change for many years, and the number of departments which still either a) still allowing drinking on premises, or b) allow members to respond intoxicated, are dwindling. In this litigious society no department can afford to allow intoxicated members to roll-out. Some just haven't learned the lesson YET. 2) The industry can only guarantee all responders are sober if every member is breathalyzed prior to rolling-out. Anything short of that is a personal judgment call and is no guarentee. 3) There are two ways of creating an environment where it is not tolerated; one is negative and the other positive. The negative way is through "Zero-tolerance" policies, pejorative attitudes by the department and through punishment. The positive method is through education and recruiting. Educating Firefighters and other responders and recruiting people who lead a healthier lifestyle will lower the numbers of people in a department who abuse this legal substance. Starting with the later and using the former only when necessary, will yield the best results.
In paid, professional departments, or in volunteer departments where members work scheduled shifts, a zero-tolerance policy is the only way to go (zero consumption for eight hours prior to the scheduled shift, or training activity). But hand-in-hand with that the department needs to have resources available to help members who do have a drinking problem (abuse of "ETOH" as you would call it), and help them rather than dismiss them (as long as they follow department policies on-duty).
For rural, volunteer departments in which members are paged-out and respond only when there is a call, which in some departments may be once, or twice a week, and in others may be only once or twice a month, there should be a legal standard which allows for small amounts of alcohol (ETOH as you would call it) consumption. .02% BAC is well below the legal limit to drive and operate machinery and equates to approximately 1 drink every two hours for most adults...less for some due to body mass. Loss of coordination and judgment due to alcohol consumption begin at .05% BAC.
It is unreasonable to demand that all volunteer rescuers completely abstain from alcohol all the time because they might be paged-out today. It is a legal substance, and while the department should never (in my opinion) promote alcohol use or abuse in the form of having on-premises bars, or allowing FFs to drink in the Firehouse, they do need to establish a limit for responding which is safe, but does not require every member to be a Tea-Totaler in order to be a responder, such a limit is .02% BAC (Blood Alcohol Content, not “Blood ETOH Limit”).
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Permalink Reply by Joel C Kelley on
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When I was with my first department, we ran "duty sections", which were on duty for a week at a time. During that time, on duty personnel were expected to make themselves able to respond, or find coverage if they were unable to do so. Nobody in my duty section ever consumed alcohol during duty weeks, or if they did, they got coverage from another member. Drink all the booze, hooch, liquor, whatever term you like when you are off duty, but stay dry for your week, and we all did.
I am in no way trying to say that we must be completely abstinent as an industry, but I think we all agree that a beer fridge in the station is not appropriate, either. So how do we effect change where it needs to happen? My first idea is that any staion or department that keeps a bar or beer fridge should be disqualified from receiving government funding of any kind. No annual budget line, no grant money, no public funding.
It is regrettable that you find the chemical symbol for alcohol patronizing. It has been a long running joke in my department that off duty personnel could go for some "ETOH" after trainings. Just a fun thing we did I guess. Kind of like going for "adult beverages". But let's call a spade a spade. I have called in dozens of EMS radio reports to receiving facilities wher I reported that a patient had ETOH noted on breath, and I have transported ER nurses to the facilities in which they worked, when I had to advise that they had ETOH on their breath. It doesn't matter what we call it, it still has no place in our job.
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Joel,
I like the Duty Section rotation plan. That makes sense! And yes we are in full agreement that alcohol has no place in the fire station. Period. I also concur that if departments which allowed a beer fridge, or operated a bar within the fire station were made ineligible for Federal Grants they would quickly change the way they did business.
There is nothing wrong with the chemical symbol for Ethanol, and it has its place (again this is just my opinion) in reports and in radio traffic, etc...basically official uses. It only comes across as patronizing when you use it exclusively to refer to alcoholic beverages.
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Permalink Reply by Rob on
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Sorry people that was not me I left my computer on at work today and did not sign off some clown at my work did that. again sorry
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Permalink Reply by nicholas johnson on
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we have zero tolerence at my fire house working or not if you are a live in then you have to find somewhere else that night we want let any one come in whether youve had one or 12 you cant drive into the parking lot with alcohol in your vehicle so you dont get tempted
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Whoops! I've done that once or twice and had coworkers send "love letters" to the Commander, or to everyone in the unit with my name on it.
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Permalink Reply by Jacob on
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I come from a small Vol. fire dept. and our policy is a 0 tolerence policy u show up to a call, meeting, drill, even just goto hang out you go home suspended with a 90 probation! We dont take kindly to that and on the property u will be terminated the next business meeting!
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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Hmmmm.
Based on all of the replies so far, it sounds like everyone has a handle on drinking at the station, drinking and responding, membership conduct rules, swift/severe punishments for transgressions and a clear headed vision of service provided.
Soooooo, why are we even discussing it like it's a problem in our fire service?
According to everyone here, it isn't.
OR are there some not willing to ADMIT it? Kinda like that whole seatbelt thing.
Art
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