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Chief Officers and the IDLH
This photo from a recent gallery prompted a question from a Facebook fan,
"- in the article photo I noticed a lot of guys in a smokey environment, though outside, with no masks. When are we going to learn that smoke in any environment is not our friend, and protect ourselves? When will the "commanders" learn this lesson and protect their people?"
What is the "realistic" answer? Is your IDLH loosely defined as the general fireground or is it more specific, say, from the sidewalk inward?
How much of a good example of PPE use should be expected from chief officers? Does the IC in the street at the rear of his vehicle need to be fully encapsulated? If so, what about during extremely high temperatures and humidity?
Are we "dumbing down" our firefighters if we insist that they are unable to know how and when to properly use their PPE unless a chief officer models it for them?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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Personally, I believe if an IC is on air, they are too close to effectively do their job. Problem is the question generated is not picture specific. Is one of the two white helmets in the picture the IC, or are they sector officers conversing? In the pictures of the white helmets I don't see the same thing as the FB user illiciting this topic. I don't see these guys in smoke as the FB user asserts, I can't say for sure if they have air monitors on them, but it doesn't look like they are operating in the IDLH environment as depicted. I really only see one picture of a red helmet member with a line on the "D" side within smoke without being on air, and that is a single picture. Do we know all the circumstances surrounding the picture to really cast a judgement? IMO, I say no.
When it comes to the scene realistically IDLH is outside where smoke and toxic gases are, the only way to truly define this is with air monitoring equipment. It is possible to be outside of smoke and still exposed to gases, but then again is it prudent to always be on air, even outside? I don't think so. If in smoke, yes, be on air, otherwise don't be in smoke. Try to operate with the wind at your back.
As for PPE from chief officers, well coming from a military background, I will say I respect an officer who is "living" the same environment. I don't think an IC needs to be on air etc, but if a chief officer is assigned a sector or division and is in close proximity, I appreciate them being in PPE. I don't think they need to be on air outside, but should have a pack on if conditions warrant. In the case of high temps and humidity, the decision is condition warranted. The scene itself will generate the decisions made, there is no "cookie cutter" answer. So there may be times that the chief and even crews, may be able to dress down a bit considering conditions. Although, the conditions may not warrant such relaxed measures.
So yes, I do believe we are "dumbing down" our FFs if we insist they don't know how and when to use PPE unless a chief models it. Yet, I believe the FB user's sentiment was the fact that most everyone else was in PPE (and air) and not the chief officers. So perhaps the question should be are we "dumbing down" our FFs with a do as I say not as I do approach?
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Permalink Reply by Don Catenacci on
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Personally I am tired of the Safety Sallies taking every opportunity to question every thousandth of a second image in a picture. YES, we must be safe but come on these officers are out of the smoke on the front lawn. What's next? SCBA on, breathing air in the rig as we respond in case a puff of diesel smoke gets sucked into the cab?
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Permalink Reply by captnjak on
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I see a line operating from the front porch through the door into the home. I'm not sure I see anything that warrants ANYONE being on air.
I don't understand what "high temperatures and humidity" have to do with IC at his vehicle needing to be on air.
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captnjak said:
I don't understand what "high temperatures and humidity" have to do with IC at his vehicle needing to be on air.
I can't blame the web team for trying to spur up some discussion here and expanding upon the original questioning from their FB (facebook) page. I can see the purpose of the question regarding high temps, humidity, etc expands upon the FB comments and spur discussion.
The way I see it, the question is asking the "safety at all costs" folks as to how chief officers in a command position should be dressed out. Since an IC rarely gets relieved on a scene, one would think if they had to be in full PPE, as some commentators assert, then how is that safe for them? If all chief officers or even if a chief officer's dress dictates the personnel dress, then we really are "dumbing down" the fire service. I see this as the web team spurring some more thoughts to look beyond simple pictures.
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Permalink Reply by FFN WebTeam on
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Some readers believe that the incident commander and staff should be fully dressed in PPE while at the command post, even when weather temperatures are high. The rationale is that it is an example for those working on the fireground to be properly dressed. If one needs to have a chief officer sweating it out while managing the incident, what does that say about their instruction and enforcement of proper PPE use?
captnjak said:I see a line operating from the front porch through the door into the home. I'm not sure I see anything that warrants ANYONE being on air.
I don't understand what "high temperatures and humidity" have to do with IC at his vehicle needing to be on air.
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I misconstrued the "fully encapsulated" comment and then combined it with another member's response to conclude that it was being suggested that IC be on air. Obviously disagree.
I agree that IC and all chief officers should set an example by wearing PPE.
FFN WebTeam said:Some readers believe that the incident commander and staff should be fully dressed in PPE while at the command post, even when weather temperatures are high. The rationale is that it is an example for those working on the fireground to be properly dressed. If one needs to have a chief officer sweating it out while managing the incident, what does that say about their instruction and enforcement of proper PPE use?
captnjak said:I see a line operating from the front porch through the door into the home. I'm not sure I see anything that warrants ANYONE being on air.
I don't understand what "high temperatures and humidity" have to do with IC at his vehicle needing to be on air.
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