Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jay Nicholson on February 28, 2011 at 11:12am

Why are staffing shortages being blamed for unsafe practices?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on February 28, 2011 at 11:44am

Also, Dibble and Engine 60 were doing someone else's job--ventilating the burning home-- because a ladder engine had not showed up.
http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=125415&catid=2

As I read it, Eng 60 was assigned to truck work because the Ladder hadn't arrived. Since ventilation is considered to be important I'm guessing that the fact that there was no one available to foot the ladder was considered somewhat less important than actually getting up onto the roof and venting.

If I follow your line of thought correctly, then anytime a FF is injured, it's a result of unsafe practices. That being said, I guess the best practice is to respond to the scene flow of traffic, get off the engine slowly, cautiously and helping the man behind you, carefully and methodically removing and setting up monitors for a wholly defensive operation, sit back and save the foundation. I'm just sayin...

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by HeightsFF on February 28, 2011 at 11:51am

hope he recovers fully!!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jay Nicholson on February 28, 2011 at 1:58pm

Not exactly what I'm saying. If a dept. couldn't afford SCBAs for every FF on scene and a FF still entered a bldg. who would we blame? A FF who fails to wear a seatbelt is committing an unsafe act. So is climbing a ground ladder without it being footed.

I'm very glad to hear that he will most likely fully recover.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on February 28, 2011 at 2:12pm

Pretty much everything we do on the fireground has its risks. NFPA Standards and safe practices, as well as departmental policies work to reduce the risks. But if one can agree that sending firemen into a burning house to rescue (or search for possible) victims, while clearly UNSAFE is an acceptable risk, then how could one decree that climbing onto a roof to (what at least I assume was to) vent for safety is ONLY acceptable if the ladder is being footed.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by HeightsFF on February 28, 2011 at 2:28pm

the more staffing they take away from us the more dangerous or job gets. You in a union out there Jay?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Mike Coleman on February 28, 2011 at 2:47pm

After re-reading the article, it appears the ladder slipped out from underneath him, causing him to fall. Essentially, he fell because short staffing did not allow for sufficient personnel to be on the scene in a timely manner to prevent his fall. (i.e., heel the ladder) That being said, we must constantly be on guard for our own safety first and so he probably shouldn't have climbed the ladder in the first place.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on February 28, 2011 at 3:51pm

I'm all about enhancing our own safety, but at this point we really don't know why the ladder kicked: improper placement, unlevel surface, some mechanical interference? On the other hand, it could have just been one of those things.

But I'm not sure that, standing next to the ladder, with an interior crew possible advancing the hose in and heat and smoke building up inside the house creating untenable conditions, that the appropriate thing to do at that time would have been for a firefighter to say, "Hey, I'm gonna wait a minute or two, see if someone else shows up to help me...you know, to foot the ladder for me. Not sayin' I won't do it, only that I'd rather not have to if there's any chance that we've got another engine or ladder maybe already heading over here. I mean, it's not like the fire is going anywhere, right?"
Oh wait a minute, the FF is a 28 year veteran and Captain. I'm betting he just went ahead and did the job expected of him. Sometimes...shit happens.

Captain Dibble's own comment from here http://www.fox40.com/news/headlines/ktxl-news-firefigherfallsfolo,0...
"Things happen. Fire ground is chaotic. We try to bring order into chaos and make things happen so we get a successful outcome...it doesn't always work out, but that doesn't mean you stop trying."

Get well soon, Cap.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by WestPhilly on February 28, 2011 at 4:29pm

Let's always be careful out there, but the most egregious "unsafe act" is inadequately staffing a fireground.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Norm Tindell on February 28, 2011 at 4:39pm

Sure hope Captain Dibble will recover quickly and fully.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by lutan1 on February 28, 2011 at 5:46pm

At what stage do you stand back and look out for #1? The house burns, then so be it.

Sometimes...shit happens, however I'd prefer for that shit to happen to the house and not me. (Excluding a life saving rescue, it's property damage- so what!!!!)

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on February 28, 2011 at 6:51pm

lutan,

All due respect but you're suggesting letting a house burn down because there's no one to foot a ladder?
Are you also forgetting that most likely there were other activities going on INSIDE the house that required opening the roof? Would you evac the building because there was no one to foot the ladder?
"For the want of nail the shoe was lost..."
If the guy was going up 2 or more stories, sure, foot the ladder. But he was on a single story (according to the news report, garage) roof. Quite likely a bread and butter job for that area. He was on the ladder and stepped off on/near the gutter, that puts his feet about 8 feet above grade. Risky? Maybe a little, but in reality, not much higher (if at all) than the hose bed on the back of the engine.

• ▶ Reply

▶ Reply to Discussion

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• Next ›
• Page