Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on August 27, 2009 at 11:09pm

There is no such thing as "exterior" only firefighters on my dept, so I'm guessing you are on a volly dept. Are you in an area with a lot of highrises?

Thing is, there are a lot of tools in the toolbox and to concentrate on a single bail out rope system may not be the best or safest answer. Basically concentrating on one system may limit other ways of getting out. I would recommend that your dept would take a RIT and FF self rescue type of class before implementing one bailout system. There is a ladder bailout, which may be quicker than a rope system in some cases, there is a way to use a search rope to bailout, there is breaching and so on.

If the dept is saying to take the training, then by all means you take the training, despite what one wants to do. You made the commitment to the FD and it is still a paramilitary organization, whether career or volly. If you can't follow the orders, then there should be no "exterior" it should be out the door. I the dept is going to implent and order FF's to carry this equipment with them, then again, you follow orders. There will always be rules implemented that people won't like or agree with and change is also hard to take in many cases, yet it doesn't mean you don't stop following orders because one doesn't like them.

Now training is the process in which such concerns can be addressed. If such a system could be an entanglement hazard, such a thing should be addressed. If this is to be the only bailout system the dept would use, that should be a concern. Yet training is how people get comfortable with something new instead of playing the "what if" game. Train on the "what ifs" create scenarios, utilize different systems and tactics and that can get members more comfortable. Such a training should take several days and not just a lecture and demonstration type of thing.

I would definately recommend other tactics and other means of emergency egress is looked at and trained on by the dept before just implementing a rope bailout system. Like I said, this is just another tool in the toolbox, but shouldn't be the only means of emergency egress the members should know.

Permalink Reply by Timothy D. Stone Jr on August 27, 2009 at 11:28pm

We have a RIT team. We do carry rope for such a type of escape but it is not mandatory.

Permalink Reply by Doug on August 28, 2009 at 12:32am

Every certified firefighter in my department carries bailout rope, however it's not mandatory. And it's not a purchased commercial bailout system, it's simply life safety/rescue rope attached to a carabiner on either end.

But, as a department, ask yourselves, what are the majority of structures like in your response area? Are the majority one and two story residences and businesses, or are the majority taller than that, 3 story and up? If the answer is that the majority are one and two story buildings, bailout rope shouldn't be made mandatory, "or else!" simply have it strongly urged that every firefighter carry it. Because in this case, without the bailout system, you can still go out an upper level window, hang, then let go. The worst that can happen is a broken ankle or leg, the best is that someone sees you hanging there and gets a ladder to you asap. Granted, you don't want to see anyone get hurt, but to be forced, or you'll sit out, is a little ridiculous in my mind.

Permalink Reply by firekiller on August 30, 2009 at 5:53pm

Yes we are a volly dept. We have a RIT team that is NYS cert., Also some of us took firefighter survival training. Our disrict has bought harnesses and ropes for every member and they want us to make it part of our PPE. We use other means of exiting during emergencys, I'm going to be an instructor on this bail out system and i'm trying to tell the other members to take the traing. I say to them whats the worse that can happen, we never have to use it. Thanks for the input.

Permalink Reply by firekiller on August 30, 2009 at 5:58pm

Your right to be forced is silly, The training commitee and the fire comm. are in talks about this now, thanks

Permalink Reply by Reg Mathis on August 30, 2009 at 6:31pm

While the skill of bailing out via a rope system is a great skill to have, I have the following OPINION:

If you find yourself in a position which requires you to bail out via a rope, ladder or flying carpet, you have violated a premise that has been drilled in to my skull for as long as I can remember. Don't let the fire get behind you!

With proper training and a well co-ordinated attack, along with intelligent and responsive command, you should never find yourself in a position where you need to bail out. Now before anyone jumps down my throat, I agree that this skill is good to have for the rare occasions where everything goes to s**t in a handbag, but I don't believe it should be mandatory.


Just my opinion!


TCSS

Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on August 30, 2009 at 7:08pm

Reg,

Couldn't have said it better myself...

Bailout bags add weight and bulk to our gear, too, not something that's desirable on a day-to-day basis.
I'd much rather see lots of ladders thrown for secondary egress, aerial ladders in the air, and extinguishing all of the fire on your way in than reliance on a last-chance piece of gear that will get in the way all the time and (hopefully) never be used.

If I worked in a big city with lots of ordinary construction apartment buildings, I'd probably carry a bailout kit.
Given that my area has only one true high-rise, and most of the building over 3 floors are sprinklered Type I, it takes a lot of the risk away.

The other issue is that if you have to remove the heavy curtainwall glass in a true high-rise to use a bailout kit, you may not have time to bail out and you may kill someone on the ground with the falling glass.

Permalink Reply by firekiller on September 1, 2009 at 6:10pm

I.m with you , I do not think it should mandatory either. This all came about when the two F.D.N.Y firefighters died when they had to jump from the 4th floor. We have the conditions in my fire district. Alot of the dwellings are converted to multi apartments and not allways by the building owners. So i guess i can see their point, but to make it mandatory is too much Thanks all for your input. will have more to disscuss in the future.

Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on September 1, 2009 at 6:18pm

Bailout kits can actually create an entanglement or make it worse.
Try wearing one and going through a RIT entanglement drill and see what happens with the bailout kit.

Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on September 1, 2009 at 6:53pm

AMEN. We generally assign the Truck Company B-Team (Driver and Tillerman) to throw ladders on any fire on the 2nd or 3rd floor, which are common here. They generally start on Side C as that's the one that has the most limited vehicle access. (A lot of our Side C's face the beach, tidal creeks, or lagoons.)

If two or three ground ladders isn't enough, RIT can assist.

We generally have a truck, a quint, and at least two engines on each fire, so having enough ground ladders isn't usually a problem.

For fires above the 4th floor, if aerial access to Side A isn't possible, then protecting the interior stairs with a hoseline is the next step. A bailout is a definate last resort.

Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on September 1, 2009 at 7:48pm

Sorry, phamous phriend...keyboarding while eating, watching the LA fires on the news, and keeping the dog out of my supper exceeded my multitasking ability tonight, apparently.

Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on September 1, 2009 at 8:04pm

Baseball is not a sport. If it can't kill you, it's not a sport. That's why I do whitewater on the side.

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• Next ›
• Page