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Attack the Door
Not all doors are created equal. Take a look at this door and decide how you would attack it’s integrity to force it open. There is a lot that the characteristics of a door can tell you about how it is hung and secured.
Although this seems like a very simple skill and knowledge that everyone should know, I am continually surprised by how many don’t really understand how to use forcible entry tools. I’m sure you have seen the guy just beating a door to death but not getting anywhere because he is attacking the door the wrong way.
Share your thoughts, experiences and techniques with all of us on how you would attack this door. If you have photos, post them or send them and we will post them for you.
Stay safe and train hard.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Rod,
I think it's more accurate to say that they aren't SUPPOSED to be blocked across both doors.
We have problems with one of double door-entries into restaurants, movie theaters, and other places of assembly being latched or locked; with or without panic hardware. I never assume that the occupants are compliant with fire codes - its not a safe bet.
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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Ben...good point...Just because it is "supposed" to be clear or free doesn't mean squat.
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Permalink Reply by Mark Oomkes on
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So doors are never changed in between visits?
You have a preplan for every single door on every building and nothing changes in between these times?
In a perfect world, sure, but I don't live in a perfect world.
Great discussion and points made. I have learned a lot, we don't have many (any) fires in commercial structures that require forcible entry, so we don't practice it much. But it's always good to learn, never know where we might end up.
Any chance we get a look inside at what this door is really like?
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Permalink Reply by Patti Walz on
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But Mark.... I thought this was a perfect world... :)
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Permalink Reply by Brotherhood Instructors, LLC on
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Guys,
Here are a few thoughts on the plunge cut/framing square technique. Personally, I would stay away from anything that involves a framing square and a plunge cut. When firefighters ask me about this technique, I sort of cringe.
While it is certainly an option, I don't think it is a very solid option when dealing with common forcible entry problems, and here is why:
1) It is an EXTREMELY LIMITED option, and can ONLY be used in one specific circumstance. It can ONLY be used on panic hardware that is NOT locked. Modern panic hardware may have a key lock on it, so it can be locked out, rendering this technique useless. Older style panic hardware has a locking device that is placed on the bars, making the panic bar unable to be pressed down, again rendering this technique useless.
2) If there are ANY other locks or locking devices on the back of the door (even a BS slide-bolt from a 99-cent store), this technique is a huge waste of time. The saw will be fired up, the plunge cut made, the framing square placed through the door, and the door will still not open. You will need to revert back to conventional forcible entry skills on the irons.
3) You waste a TON of time, and if using composite blades you waste a lot of the blade diameter conducting a plunge cut operation. If a firefighter has to force entry into two or more doors, this may not be possible with one saw blade ASSUMING that all that we are forcing is panic hardware. I think that many firefighters overestimate the strength of "panic hardware". They can easily be taken in under a minute, and most substantially locked (2-3 locks) doors can be taken in less than a minute as well. I tend to stick with the basic skills on the irons, and use those first. I think that many firefighters tend to look for that quick and easy way that works SOMETIMES, and try to apply it to an ALWAYS situation. Those firefighters then get frustrated when it doesn't work.
4) The door above is NOT a panic hardware situation. The bolts visible across both doors, (through-bolted) indicate the presence of a drop bar, not panic hardware. In this situation, the plunge cut/framing square "trick" will only result in a waste of time and a door still locked that will need the irons to open it.
Again, just jotting down some thoughts. Feel free to comment back. Anyone agree/disagree?
Nate
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Permalink Reply by Jason Hoevelmann on
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I will try to get inside next week. We were doing some roof stuff and the thought of posting the door just hit me so I snapped a pic and posted. But I will see if I can get in.
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Thanks, like I said, I have very little experience and have a hard time visualizing some things, so I love the picture books. (go ahead, I opened the door)
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As you are walking around town, look at the different doors and ask yourself how would you get in.... The hardest one for us to figure out is getting into a gun shop with the barred windows/doors
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K-12 or cutting torch solves just about any barrier problem.....that is if your Chief won't let you utilize explosives....it really is the cure all....I have yet to see any problem that the right amount of explosives properly placed will not cure.....Here today....gone tomorrow.....all in a large puff of smoke.
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But would you really want to enter a burning gun shop?????
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I think I read a book about this once....Let's see....How did it go.....? Hmmm.....? Oh I know now, You huff and you puff and you blowwwwwww the door down........
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Yo are too funny!!!
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