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ARFF Truck E-One 1500 used in a mutual Aid response
My question of the day think outside the box? Lanai ARFF Has been fortunate to have been called out to support wild land ff operations. This Unit ARFF deals with high impact situation right out of the box. Through Training with our county fire dept. the last 5 yr we have developed a good ARFF tactic on the use of ARFF knowledge and applying equipment in our inventory to assist in wild land fire suppression. ARFF vehicles are great for quick knock down of a fire line. which will give the crew on the ground a safer work environment. Go to the link below and see what a bystander caught on video. We did this type of fire suppression 48hr straight. No lost of homes in this area. I would like to here your comments and hope that you can tap into your local ARFF units only through training can this be done. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSKOmDKT5ho
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Tony P on
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I haven't seen it, but I know that the ARFF tenders at our international have been used to hit approaching grassfires. The local brigade said it was a great sight - just a couple of those monsters and out went the fire. Just the cleaning-up to do. From memory they have only been used from inside the perimeter fence, their primary concern always being the air traffic and the airport assets.
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Permalink Reply by DUST on
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That was nice work! My paid dept is ARFF and I've only been on 1 call where the county called us for mutual aid on a working fire. It was at a boat storage facility. We had the class B foam to put out the fuel burning in the boats. I got a picture of it on my profile. I'd like to do more mutual aid but our prime directive is protecting aircraft and our own campus plus we are normally understaffed as it is...
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Permalink Reply by Pike on
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During both of our major conflagration fires (wildland rolling into urban) we used both of our municipal airports' P19's extensively. Crews that worked on those said it was a fantastic tool.
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Permalink Reply by George Purdy on
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This is why i wanted to ask think outside the box? Airports are so stuck with in thier fences that they our counter parts are not sure if they should ask for help or not. we are having all this training on NIMS so that everybody can play nicely with each other. NIMS teaches us how to use and manage all our resources. I have searched the web looking for ARFF participation outside the fence not much caught on tape. I know they have participated on many fires but not many discussions on preplaning how we can work with each other in the future and expanding more mutual aid response together.
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I know this we are under staff also we run a 1 man minimum. We have a staff of Capt. 2 AFEO's thats it. we work 4 on 4 off 12hr days closed at nights. we have 2 1500 ARFF vehicles. But FAR 139 has a deveation section which dont be afraid to use it. To save life and property in your sourounding community pricless you wont get any flak about it. but that is why we need to open up our fences open talks with off airport fire departments and give them an idea during size up to think about could we use ARFF to minimize the out come? useing IC system we are covered and it will give us a higher value for usefullness. In the IC system we are a type 1 engine crew that is the best of the best.
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Thats what i like to hear and would like to see more of this in the future. during these hard times we need to make that change to better the future. Large Structures on fire are like an Aircraft on the ground on fire its a round structure with wings. it is a blaze when we arrive and out when we leave. AFEO's must step up thier game to do these off airport operations its a whole new animal. The reason i say this is i could see my coworker in this last fire from the video. Due to the lack of training and off airport knowledge he was unsure of him self and the trucks capability to due the job. but by the end of this fire he has a whole new out look and ready to except more training outside the box to support the community fire dept. and the same goes for county fire dept.
We found that they needed ARFF more at Night because Heli ops are done at dark we were able to protect homes at night. Prevent fire from jumping the highways and containing the fire until morning when Heli ops starts up again.
Just remeber ARFF is essential at night in protecting your community. ANY airport can let one ARFF unit go it makes a huge difference in turning the tide.
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See that's what i like to hear. but it will only happen if the chiefs sit down and talk about it?
Training in Size up is the key and using NIMS. BY under standing ICS size up teaches us to order big because u just never know what you will need this is where ARFF will be in the loop More frequent. in these tough times all resource are need and we can prove are worth outside are airport fence. What a big money saver when the counties don't have to buy and staff these rigs it already there at most airports. we could save life and property in the millions if we all just sit down and talk a little bit more pre plan big events cost saving priceless.
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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Do you mean think outside the box like this? Oh this pic was taken in 8/2006 and thats a TI-3000 with a snozzle operating at a brush fire outside the airport - mutual aid.
George I need to correct you on one point, "any ARFF can let one go at night" The only concern that some airport managers have with mutual aid assistance; is with assurance that the airport's fire protection index is ALWAYS met. Given that, many civilian airports man the apparatus at a minimum, (driver only) as well as having the minimum number of vehicles required, therefore are hesitant to offer or send ARFF apparatus "outside of the fence" as you put it because it dramatically reduces the fire protection that must always remain on site. For those who do not know, per FAA requirements, the ARFF FD must be able to respond to an inflight emergency, reaching the aircraft at the mid-point of the furthest runway, discharging water/foam in (3) minutes or less from time of notification (day or night) per 139 requirements. Our airport has flights 24/7, therefore protected 24-7, and not closed at night.
In the post 9-11 lockdown of airport perimeter fencing and added security demands, alot of times it takes longer than that to get outside of the airport, not to mention getting back inside and potentially responding with reduced capabilites.
We are lucky enough that our required index is (C) and we man the airport fire protection at a (D) thus mutual aid for these type of responses is immediate without the reduction in services.
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I stand corrected I know we must meet all minimum requirements. we were an index B but now an index A with two fifteen hundreds which yes we can meet all minimum requirements. The reason I am asking around is to find out how many departments out there get called out there is not much incident that i found so i am asking around to learn from different situation. One day just maybe FD airports may be not just be staffed with just minimum personnel but by asking around gathering more information that we can be above minimum staffing. I am only speaking for me here at my station i don't want say anything about anybody else we are just following FAA requirements but if we don't ask question we can never grow. I feel we are in a time of change that if we ask question know that there might be changes in the future who knows. I just feel the level of impact that we can deliver early is great in shorting the out come of the situation. When we all work together for the greater good life is good for everybody. thanks for your comment i hope we can chat more.
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Why would Airport Management, who currently funds your department along with federal FAA funding, want you to increase off airport responses and start protecting a nearby community in which refuses to fund their own department adequately.
I hear that you want to grow, but you are already staffing two 1500's (which is a B index protection) and most A index ARFF's have one guy and one little mini-pumper. Sorry growth will probably not happen because you are already over staffed per the requirements and the off airport response is not a mandatory requirement under 139. Even an aircraft crash outside the airport would be considered a mutual aid response from ARFF to the town in which it is in.
Sounds like you are looking for more work because ARFF is slow inside the fence. How many true emergencies did your department respond to last year.
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Last Year 1 Heli lost hydraulics that's it for aircraft incidents. for the past 5 yr 4 minor incidents. I have been here for 11yrs yes I know we are slow. After the Hawaiian DC 9's left we were dropped to a lower index yes are equipment is fat. I have been In the military Navy 5 yrs 2 aircraft carriers worked flight deck had action. 6 yr Airforce fire department saw action and also lots of changes to. Mutual Aid the last 5 yrs each year brush fire 2,500 acres roughly each time. The electric company started the fires each time island joke. The community has come to depend on us and its hard to say no county depends on us but they do understand are rules and what FAA requirements we face. This is what we have on Island pop:3,300 County Fire runs a engine Crew of 4 and a 1500 tanker 1 driver. Police 5 assigned to island 1 on duty per shift. Airports STAFF 3, 1 Capt.,2 AFEO 4 12 4days off 1 per shift for 2 days and 2 days with the captain outside help will take 4 to 6hr on a good day. your only way in or out of the island is plane or boat. I just want to help as much of my community as i can. Because here if you don't do your best they basically run you off the island
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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
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Tony, last summer I watched a strike team respond through Bachus Marsh (They were stationed at Gisborne) and it included 2 ARFF appliances!
It was the most amazing site to see a stream of pumpers and these biggest mother f**kers you've ever seen responding lights and sirens through towns to get to this grass fire!!!
It's good to see proper utilisation fo all available resources- it highlights that we're all there for the same thing and there's no pissing contests between agencies (And let's face it, the ARFF pissing contest would far outdo anything we could throw at them with our pumpers!)....
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