All You Heavy Rescue Crews, Please read and help if you can

Hey I was asked to come up with a new training manual for our rescue squad. The manual is to get people cleared to ride our squad as "Rescue Support Techs". This is the bare minimum for riding our squad and are cleared firefighters with all necessary certifications minus those for HTR type stuff (Vehicle rescue, trench, etc.). Any help would be awesome. Thank you!!

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I certainly hope that you are not a paid firefighter who thinks that vollies can't be just as--if not more--professional than those who are compensated for their efforts.

That being said, I have the highest level of respect for those in our brotherhood. That being said, understand that there is no disrepsect intended to my question. For all I know, in DC, HR crews may do all of the searching. In NJ, that is not the case. Rescue companies in the fire service do search; I am quite aware of this. However, I am not so sure that this qualifies that particular task as the bread and butter of HR.

I am not trying to be argumentative, but I think he indicated that he was operating what sounds like a TR based HR. You said that, "I would recommend two additional things: make sure they are responsible enough to conduct a search above the fire without a hoseline when warranted as that is the real bread and butter of a Heavy Rescue."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a basic firefighting operation. Moreover, I think the question was more geared toward the technician level rescue disciplines. I could be wrong, but that was my impression,

In regard to the step chock recommendation, I agree. Those not trained in extrication operations, before making patient contact can crib the vehicle before gaining access in the vehicle. Training in this regard makes a great deal of sense. Depending upon the dept. some may want to train their guys and gals to severe the battery cables.

My academy comment was directed mostly at the fact that it iseemed off topic and was something I think ALL FFs, not just Rescue or HR personnel should do.
I am a paid guy who volunteered for several years and know many professionals and dirtbags on both sides of the fence. Title means nothing, actions mean everything.

While everybody is trained to search, the ultimate responsibility for the search (at least in DC) falls on the Rescue company. It takes some knowledge to know if it is ok to hit the stairs to the second floor before a line has gotten in service for a first floor or basement fire. It takes even more knowledge and restraint to know that is NOT a good idea to go up.

We are fortunate that we have the resources to allow for a dedicated group of guys to do a search. We focus ONLY on search and let the trucks and engines do their job.

As for addressing one off topic comment with another, I guess I missed your point. I thought you were asking me a legitimate question and I responded. I think it was on topic as fire calls, and the subsequent search assignment, comes more frequently than a TRT type of call. Here in the DC area Heavy Rescue, Rescue company, and Rescue Squad all pretty much mean the same thing.

I'm just curious, what part of Rescue 2 Training's response to YOUR question "What fire academy did YOU go to?", led you to "hope" he wasn't a "paid firefighter who thinks vollies can't be just as--if not more--professional than those who are compensated for their efforts."?
It was a preface intended to avoid the headache of getting into a pissing match. As with all forums things get lost in translation. We shored this issue up and have since dispensed with it. All is good.
Interesting. Seems to me that type of preface is exactly the kind of thing that would likely have the opposite effect of avoiding a pissing match. Luckily, all is good.
I was unaware my post would get that

Anyway let me be a little me detailed as to what I am needing, our "Support Techs" are as of now need to meet this:
-Firefighter 2
-3 Years Exp.
-Tool Knowledge
-Search and Rescue Knowledge
-Haz-mat Ops
-Vehicle Stabilization
-How to start, use, and maintain power tools
-And other basic knowledge stuff

The only things they are unable to do are (until certified or released to do) is any extrication, trench, rope, etc.

This is essentially the red hat (Not fire certified person / jr.) level on the engine just with more responsibility and actually being a cleared firefighter.
Look buddy, I am no longer responding, after this post, to anything you have to say in the future. You have a reactionary personality and you get your kicks out of jacking people up on this website. Furthermore, your comments rarely make any sense. You have caused nothing but problems in nearly every forum I have been in with you.

I don't really care what seems interesting to you. Paid guys sometimes have the attitude that vollies are hacks. I, for one, am not a hack. I was simply indicating that I was hoping for the best possible outcome. Rescue 2 Training's original reply had the makings of what I have come to know as that very paid attitude of which I am referring. To my liking, this was not the case and he and I continued with the conversation.

I was confused because of the general nature of the search comment he made. We would worked it out. Don't be upset because nobody was paying attention to you.

In terms of my preface that you're nit-picking about, your perspective of it causing a pissing match is eroneous because if Rescue 2 Training hadn't been on this website for the most beneficial of purposes, it would have been readily obvious upon my receipt of his following reply.

Since there is no obvious reason for you to be bothered by this, I will chalk this up to the fact that you are continuing to do what you have always done in the past, which is distract everyone from the pertinent conversation at hand.

Not to mention, what does "luckily" mean? What grade are you in? I have students with greater maturity than that. As if to say, fortunately for me? The only consequence for the ensuing pissing match would have been me...telling him what I'm telling you...

Do not expect me to reply to you for any reason whatsoever in the future. Do yourself a favor and don't waste your time.

All in all, stay safe. No matter the quarrel, a brother is a brother. Maybe you need to be reminded of that...
Okay. I am still curious about a couple of things...

Do you guys not get HM Ops in FF2?
Do you not do S&R evolutions in the academy?
Do you guys not learn how to operate saws and other gas powered tools at the academy, especially when cert'ed to the FF2 level?
Is vehicle stabilization not sometimes a very technical op?
Why not train them to do the rest?
Shouldn't everyone in the house know how to check, operate, and maintain each tool in the cache?
Are you suggesting that they can do CSR, building collapse, water rescue?
Isn't rope work the backbone of all TR disciplines?
What about elevator rescue?

I have to be honest about this. A firefighting cert. may help improve abilities, but you do not have to hump hose to be good at TR ops.

Also, no Junior should ever be starting and assuring the operation of a saw or other crucial piece of equipment. This actually violates child labor laws which DO apply to juniors at the firehouse. They are there to learn, not to increase the manpower pool or make things easier for everyone else. Juniors should NEVER...and I stabilizing a MV.

On most companies, I know this is the reality. Moreover, there is no such thing as a junior rescue technician. you're either awareness level which essentially means you are aware that you know nothing and should operate in a observation or minimalistic support role or your ops and tech level which means you can actually operate.


"This is essentially the red hat (Not fire certified person / jr.) level on the engine just with more responsibility and actually being a cleared firefighter."

Do you see the paradox here? Which is it? I want to help you, but I am not so sure that this is realistic or beneficial...that is if i am understadning what you are saying.
Thank you so much we have never had to do one of those and I hope never will in the future.
Ok so never mind, apparently coming here asking for help was a BIG mistake. Because I feel that although I did get some helpful answers, I also feel I am being ripped to pieces. All I was looking for was what you all required to become riding members of a Rescue Squad, and maybe send me a copy of a couple Training Manuals, THATS IT. To those that helped thanks to the rest of you thanks as well for teaching me to A) Be more detailed with what I need and B) I should have just asked flat out for Manuals and stuff instead of trying to start a conversation.

And lastly to:
Mike "Lapo" Lapotasky,

-Yes we do get HO after FF2
-Yes we do get S&R skill in the academy
-Yes to the tool stuff
-CSR, building collapse, water rescue fall under the "ETC" at the end of "The only things they are unable to do are (until certified or released to do) is any extrication, trench, rope, etc."

These people are basically extra sets of hands who are trained on the basics in Squad work and to HELP the Rescue Squad Technicians, THATS IT.

And no or JR members cant do any thing however after completing some basic training they can ride the ENGINE but CANT do anything on incidents. I was strictly COMPARING our probationary (red hats) members who are cleared to ride the engine and preform basic functions on incidents. JUST LIKE OUR RESCUE SQUAD SUPPORT TECHS! The BIG difference between the 2 is that a Rescue Squad Support Tech is a certified Firefighter 2 and has been around for a while, whereas a red hat is not yet firefighter 1 and cant go into an IDLH.

So that being said if anyone has any other questions PM me, If you have any HELP please post it. Thats it. Unless I feel the need to post again, this is my last reply.

Really? I'm the one with the "reactionary personality"? You followed my two line comment with an eight paragraph screed, if ever there was one, and I'm the one who's reactionary?

I hope you were serious when you said you weren't going to respond any longer to anything I say to you, I don't think I can take the whining. But just in case anyone else is looking for a follow-up from me, I'll be back later tonight - Fire Gods willing - to respond further.

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