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EMT protocol at the scene of a car accident
When the ambulance arrives at the scene of a car accident, is it not required that the EMTs' in the ambulance check if the individuals involved in the crash are well?
I have recently heard of a situation where an ambulance showed up at an accident, looked around and did not administer any tests to see if one of the individuals in the crash were hurt. Instead, the EMT only looks at this person (who is at least 6ft away from the EMT during the "diagnosis") and asks, "Are you hurt?" and the individual responds with a confused, "I don't think so, I think I'm fine."
There's a problem here, and this could be a scenario where the person in the accident may be injured and not know it, like a very mild concussion or something else. These EMT's should have performed some sort of test to verify that the person was ok.
My question to you: Is there a law or protocol that is enforced by the state or federal governments which EMTs' must adhere to when dealing with people in car accidents? If so, where can you find this information.
I have recently heard of a situation where an ambulance showed up at an accident, looked around and did not administer any tests to see if one of the individuals in the crash were hurt. Instead, the EMT only looks at this person (who is at least 6ft away from the EMT during the "diagnosis") and asks, "Are you hurt?" and the individual responds with a confused, "I don't think so, I think I'm fine."
There's a problem here, and this could be a scenario where the person in the accident may be injured and not know it, like a very mild concussion or something else. These EMT's should have performed some sort of test to verify that the person was ok.
My question to you: Is there a law or protocol that is enforced by the state or federal governments which EMTs' must adhere to when dealing with people in car accidents? If so, where can you find this information.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on
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I don't know - must be losing my touch. Or maybe it's because "Bildo" and the other have failed to answer up?
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Permalink Reply by Moose on
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West Philly,
No where in my post did I say I would not do everything in my power to remove people from harms way....In fact, I even said that if there was an IMMEDIATE threat to life or limb I would do everything I could to remove the victims.
The way I was taught in both my EMS and Fire classes is a dead or injured responder is no good to anyone, and anyone that rushes into a scene without first making sure the scene was safe is in fact an "Unsafe" individual. I was merely pointing out the "Scene Safety" factor and didnt feel like I needed to explain all of the ensuing protocols that followed. Is that a better explanation brother? lol
I also stated that the topic starter was in fact not an EMS provider and could we all argue something if the validity of the original complaint was bogus...just wondering if you actually caught that part of my post.
Thanks for your reply.
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Permalink Reply by Brian Dumser on
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GRRRRRRR! Go get 'em Siren!
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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on
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I agree with you Philly. You plan for the worse and take the necessary precautions to ensure safety. In a split second you can make a choice that will endanger you and potentially save the victim. Goes back to the risk little to save little, risk a lot to save a lot....
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Hey Philly,
Can I have your autograph man? Your my hero :)
Please please please please please please please please please be safe!!!!
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Permalink Reply by ERCVFD 842 C. Warren on
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Moose I agree with you, there is no need to go in balls to the wall if the scene is unsafe, also this report also didn't give information on the kind of vehicle involved, this MVA could involve some form of HAZ-MAT. As far as these EMTs assessment, I was taught to do the scene size up, to visual triage, ask a basic question("Are you ok?"), request constest for treatment. This report also doesn't say if the patients refused Rx or Tx or not.
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Permalink Reply by Tim on
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They ask a series of questions to establish an LOC (Level Of Consciousness). You are correct in that an EMT needs consent from the patient or an advocate in order to treat but, in my area, the patient has to show an "LOC times 4" which means that they are aware of person, place, time, and event. Even then the EMT's still do all they can to convince the patient to accept treatment. I have never heard of establishing an LOC from 6 feet away while passing by. That sounds to me like someone who isn't into their profession.
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Hi Joe. Long time since we've chatted. Just wanted to say that I think this is a valid question not one intended strictly to "stir up trouble". I have seen EMS personnel who either got into a profession that they thought was different or are just doing something to make money. What I am trying to say is that these folks I refer to just aren't that fired up about the profession. Is that the case here? Only the EMS people refereed to in the original post know for sure. The question, it seems to me, was about the regulations that govern a situation like this. Personally I would never "walk by" a patient with an "Are you OK?" and leave it at that. Regulations and protocols aside, I just wouldn't do that. There are some exceptions listed here but I still wouldn't feel comfortable without a decent initial assessment.
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Permalink Reply by Keith Morris on
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Legally, professionally and morally they have a duty to act and given their training, primary and secondary surveys should've been carried out, some type of avpu assessment and a check of the persons vitals. Sounds like a total kop out to me!!
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You failed to miss my entire overall point brother. Im following the safety rules as opposed to Rushing In. I will do a quick check for power lines, gas spilling out, do a 360 of the car to check for other victims and hazards, make sure its in park, turn off the engine and remove keys to a safe distance in case its a Hybrid car, than when I have done all the safety checks I will finish my assesment. I didnt think I needed to explain that in full to you all and possibly offend someone by making them think I felt everyone was dumb enough to need an explanation.
Id rather be safe than "Rush" in like a fool and try and get a picture in the paper, falling victim to tunnel visioning and getting myself and possibly my crew hurt or killed because I failed to take a few ROUTINE safety precautions first....I do it at every accident scene I go to and will continue to do so.
Hope that helped this time cause I dont know How else to explain it to you.
Stay Safe
Moose
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Hey Siren. I see your point as this is a site for people in the profession. You have to admit though, it is still a decent discussion because it does bring to light the point that there is some (as West Philly put it) "half-assed" work going on out there for reasons like the ones I listed in the reply to Joe. I also see your point that anyone in this business, who were serious about their passion for the job, would obviously never simply "walk by" in a situation like this but the thread started the discussion so therefore it accomplished what a "thread" is supposed to and, IMO, not a bs thread. BTW hope you accept my friend request. I like the way you voice yourself and want to keep up if that's OK. Peace!
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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Bildo,
Were you or someone you know the victim of this scenario??? are you looking for what they did or DID NOT do? That is what people are asking by saying are you trying to stir up something. I like this website but if you are not in the business, then you have NO business being here. I am tired of answering dumb questions.
EMT's are taught to respond, arrive, obtain consent to assess from the victim, assess, treat or obtain a signature waiving the patient's desire not to treat or transport to an appropriate medical facility.
My advice to you is call a lawyer, don't pit EMS against eachother...
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