Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on July 2, 2008 at 3:32pm

Jim,

Those instances occurred several years ago, mostly in wilderness rescue situations that were specifically exempted from the NFPA 1983 and 1670 standards that were in place at the time.

The 11 mm track line that had the sheath stripped was one of a pair of double track lines. At the time, the wilderness SAR and swiftwater standards in use by our AHJ called for twin 11mm track lines with belayed 11mm tag lines. That one time in training was the only time we had a system failure, including in canyon and swiftwater boat Tyrolean rescue situations.

Permalink Reply by Jim on July 2, 2008 at 9:19pm

Ok, I can see using 13 mm double track lines or one 5/8" for the trackline. With hauling lines, each end of 13mm (1/2") or maybe, maybe, maybe (do you hear my reservations) of 11 mm for the haul lines. I'm not really a proponent of having a 5/8" lifeline in my cache when I use 1/2" so much more and for so many other things. I also am not a proponent for using an attendant for some of the same reasons. What's your opinion anyone?

Permalink Reply by Jim on July 2, 2008 at 9:27pm

For a tag line I could agree more with that. I figured out that I misunderstood after I sent before and tryed to correct, but it was to late. I am enjoying this discussion. This is exactly what I want to generate. You said "the other end of the state". Thought you were in the UK? Or do they use the same term and I am not aware?

Permalink Reply by lutan1 on July 3, 2008 at 1:28am

In in Victoria, Australia.

Permalink Reply by Corey D. on July 7, 2008 at 1:13pm

Do we need a safety for the safety and a back up for the back up?
In rope rescue do we not already use a 15 to 1 safety factor in our rope systems? or do we use a 4 to 1 safety factor? regardless of the safety factor we build it into our systems. We operate under the max. load capacity of our soft and hard ware. Depending on your location and or the location of your set up and system why should you have to carry a pack mule full of stuff into the woods for two hours to pull one victim up a 15 foot embankment. We teach safety in our classes and back ups. how many times do you take the time to set up back ups to your safety's? Should we not trust the rope that we put our lives on?
Use life safety rope for life safety and utility rope for tying the perimeter around the cold zone. lol
Be safe and remember your number 1.

Permalink Reply by lutan1 on July 7, 2008 at 5:32pm

We operate under the max. load capacity of our soft and hard ware.
I'm actually hoping you've typed that incorrectly. I hope no one operates their systems under maximum load capacity.

Permalink Reply by Jim on July 7, 2008 at 7:05pm

Thanks Lutan, a good point that you are making. Actually the current industry standard in the US calls it WLL (Working Load Limit) formally called SWL (Safe Working Load). This will be a new term for most that do rope rescue. It comes from the chain, wire rope, and webbing industry standards writen by ASME B30 and OSHA here in the states. Got that out of the way first. I know Cory very well, and I am sure he was refering to not exceeding the WLL. Which is 15-1 for Life Safety rope applications.

300 lbs. WLL on 7/16" or an Ultimate Load of 4500 lbs. = to a one person load
600 lbs. WLL on 1/2" or an Ultimate Load of 9000 lbs. = to a two person load
900 lbs. WLL on 5/8" or an Ultimate Load of 13,500 lbs. = to a three person load

Most rescue teams here also, if they know why they do, operate on a 10-1 minimum Life Safety margin on webbing used in systems. For high lines, I personal like to double that for the anchors do to additional stresses.

Permalink Reply by Jim on July 7, 2008 at 7:14pm

I should also have said that the Hardware should meet the "General Use" requirement to meet the OSHA requirements in the US for Life Safety. Take care of each other, ultimately that's what all this is about. Jim

Permalink Reply by Dave Reed on July 8, 2008 at 9:15pm

East Coast - Keep it simple Fast and light (KISS) and most important safe

Big words some times turn people off . FF's are a vast mix of back grounds . I find its best to be muti -lingual ,meaning talk all styles to get your word across .

Permalink Reply by Dave Reed on July 8, 2008 at 9:18pm

well said

Permalink Reply by Jim on July 9, 2008 at 3:49am

Not sure what your saying here? Big words some times turn people off . FF's are a vast mix of back grounds . I find its best to be muti -lingual ,meaning talk all styles to get your word across . Can you explain a little further.

Permalink Reply by Jim on July 28, 2008 at 2:31pm

Hello Dave, Haven't heard back from you yet on my comment. Like to hear your comments expounded on a little more. Hope everyone is safe and enjoying this heat. Ha Ha on the heat! Hope to hear back soon. Jim

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• Next ›
• Page