Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Eric Taylor on July 11, 2008 at 4:08pm

Very similar situation on the front page of my website www.RescueCuts.com

Permalink Reply by Chris Larson on July 17, 2008 at 5:51pm

ok my view is first make sure that the power is off, the i like the platform idea in a crunch you could use a towtruck with a long beam to support the car from falling if the lines snap hook to the frame or engine mounts the use the rescue jacks to support it latteraly and also use your fladbed platform to push agenst with your jacks if time is limited just maksure that the platform is below the pt so that you dont push on them (that is only in a crunch like priority 1 crunch) but useing the platform as a stabalizer will get you clocer to the car

Permalink Reply by Chris Larson on July 17, 2008 at 6:24pm

one more thing...this car should be leaking fluids (mainly gas out of the overflow) what percautions do u take there if it does catch and the power is stll on u just have to let it go right??

Permalink Reply by FireCat on July 19, 2008 at 7:10pm

This was one of the topics covered in my training class today. This is great added information for me to learn from.

Lutan1 - You provided interesting points for me to think about.

Thanks everyone!
Cat :o)

Permalink Reply by Jim on July 21, 2008 at 6:22pm

First off I am a believer in a little product called an AC Hotstick to get a primary check on the power. I beleive they aught to be on every first due piece. If the vehicle is inergized that stops everything until the utility companies are on scene and confirm power is off. Don't think that because," it's just cable", that it want bite you. Let's think outside the box. If you can get a long container dumpster truck on scene with a Class 3 wrecker, pull the truck with the container to the underside of the car. Run cabling for dual tie backs over the dumpster, and stabilize the car. This would give rescuers a safe position to work from. Next pull a rollback up to the roof area to use for access through the roof for access.This would also give you purchase points to secure the car back to the roll back bed using chains of Grade 10 and the rollback winch. How about that for out of the box! Several years ago I ran a call where a vehicle backing out of a parking lot, ran backwards up a tie back cable for a power pole. Only part on ground was the front bumper. One trapped inside at arrival. Class 3 wrecker's work great. Never say never in rescue!!!

Permalink Reply by Asst Chief Tim Cook on January 29, 2009 at 7:03pm

Those are Phone/Comm wires.No voltage of consequence there.Need a Hyd tow truck(NOT a damn flatbed)in one ton to medium, hook two winch lines to the two attachment points about a foot below the frt wheels.Once secured and lifted take a pike pole and get the wires out from under the wheel.Then gently lower the car while driving forward and return it to all four tires.

Permalink Reply by Asst Chief Tim Cook on January 29, 2009 at 7:08pm

NOT a job I'd use a flatbed on.Takes Waaay too long with nasty results.90% of the vehicles on the road today DO NOT require a flatbed,their owners have been brainwashed to think they do.Out of a fleet of six trucks I have ONE flatbed(4 car)so you know what I think of flatbeds.

Permalink Reply by Asst Chief Tim Cook on January 29, 2009 at 7:12pm

Jim,I hope you meant 100 chain,My Rotweiller gets hooked to 30 chain(ruggeder than 10)which is still junk

Permalink Reply by Jim on January 29, 2009 at 8:43pm

Don't forget that both comm and cable can carry 55 volts or better. Like your thought s though except the chains, which I will reply to seperately. jim

Permalink Reply by Jim on January 29, 2009 at 9:16pm

Well lets start with the grade 100 or 10 controvercy. Means the same thing in the rigging industry. OK, lets look at the OSHA requirements for vertical lifting of an object. Big difference than towing or tie down than being allowed to lift off the ground. Only grade 8, 10 or higher allowed. Tie downs either Grade 43 high test or grade 7 or 70 (which again is the same thing). OSHA definition for use as a vertical rigging starts at one inch from the ground. Next lets compare weight capabilities by grade and size. First your Grade 30 Proff Coil (Low Carbon Steel)1/2" at 4500 lbs.; Grade 43 High Test 3/8" at 5400 lbs.; or compaired to Grade 10 Allow Steel 9/32" at 4300 lbs.; Grade 70 Transport (carbon steel) 3/8" at 6600 lbs.; as opposed to Grade 8 or 80 Allow Steel 3/8" at 7100 lbs. and Grade 10 3/8" at 8800 lbs. So what were you saying about your Grade 30 being tougher. It's all in use. I teach a Rigging for Rescuers program that I developed. Always interested in input. Take care. jim

Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on January 29, 2009 at 9:50pm

I agree. Those are phone/communications wires and they do pack a low voltage punch that can and will kill you in a heartbeat.
As mentioned before, this "patient" decided the bus terminal was more important after they self extricated than waiting around.

In this scenerio providing I had a victim inside would be a very delicate operation. The vehicle is suspended approximately 6" off the ground. I saw a few comments provided that said once the power was off to stabilize the car. This is a great idea with the exception of the risk factoring. What of the lines snap or the car suddenly decides it's going to snap the catch point off? If someone is in the process of cribbing the bottom of the car and installing the rescue jacks, they are either dead or seriously in need of new pants.
To safely do this operation you should (as everyone else has said) secure the lines via the phone company. Once these lines are secured by them you need to have 3 wreckers available. Having 3 purchase points (triangle shaped) will provide stabilization needed to get your jacks i place. (over securing the car is better here) A platform would be perfect except who out of all of us have one readily available on our apparatus? Would a flat bed backed into the area provide us enough height?
Would using a large folding ladder (again where does it come from?) provide enough stabilization and access for multiple rescuers to pull this victim out on a backboard?
This is a good scenerio and one we don't see often at all.

Permalink Reply by Asst Chief Tim Cook on January 30, 2009 at 9:58pm

Why do you need 3 wreckers? Patient or no patient?ONE wrecker/boom truck with a COMPETENT operator.All spin/rotational control can be handled with two ropes and you can drop cinch loops over the rear wheels with pike poles so you can stay out of the danger zone.A simple fact to remember: A SMALL Hyd tow truck with extendable boom has a EXTENDED rating of at least 4000#,16,000 retracted.With the boom raised and extended,it can support this car VERY easily.I've had occasion to practice similar events when cars go into rivers,culverts and bridges locally.This is a simple straightforward job.With the hyd rig and two handlers,you can gently lift,disemtangle, and lower to the ground WITH THE PATIENT AND RESCURER inside.Presuming your local EMS policies allow,which some jurisdictions don't.Doing it this way is MUCH safer than any other method outside of a FD Platform Ladder.

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