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Why the disrespect of the youger guys?
I have been noticing latley in my FD and other forums in the world of firefighting that alot of people dislike young succesful guys.
For example a recently promoted Lt. told me that he wanted to get promoted so he wouldn' have to work for a young punk with a college degree. WOW I thought I think that was directed @ me.
Now I respect the elder generation fo the fire service my dad is that genertation 30 years in various dept. (industrial, structural, career, and vollie). I realize that the elder generation is what made it possible for me to do this job that I love.
But I don't think the elder generation realizes that:
1. The fires they fought are not the fires we fight today, they need to evolve.
2. They built the FD but we are the future and if they don't help us along in our infancy then what they built will surely fall.
I am a young gung ho guy who trains all the time (just ask my wife) and the older guys seem to resent me for it. When I put in for leave they give me crap about taking another class. Thankfully not all of them in the dept. are like this. Some really reached out to me and we have taught each other alot.
So I just wanna know what you guys think. Do you have this problem? or Are you this problem?
For example a recently promoted Lt. told me that he wanted to get promoted so he wouldn' have to work for a young punk with a college degree. WOW I thought I think that was directed @ me.
Now I respect the elder generation fo the fire service my dad is that genertation 30 years in various dept. (industrial, structural, career, and vollie). I realize that the elder generation is what made it possible for me to do this job that I love.
But I don't think the elder generation realizes that:
1. The fires they fought are not the fires we fight today, they need to evolve.
2. They built the FD but we are the future and if they don't help us along in our infancy then what they built will surely fall.
I am a young gung ho guy who trains all the time (just ask my wife) and the older guys seem to resent me for it. When I put in for leave they give me crap about taking another class. Thankfully not all of them in the dept. are like this. Some really reached out to me and we have taught each other alot.
So I just wanna know what you guys think. Do you have this problem? or Are you this problem?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Dan Hoey on
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I just hope when all goes wrong everyone still has each others backs, I am tried of seeing the finger pointing when ever something tragic happens. We all need to never start learning. Almost a lost a crew last shift because they where to cool to wear a SCBA at a dumpster fire each was young and had less then 3 years, but I have seen enough old guys do the same. Well what was dumped in this dumpster could have and almost did kill them. Everyone just be safe and when you see someone not being smart don't be afraid to speak up and let them know just remember egos heal death doesnt.
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Permalink Reply by Joe Sheldon on
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I think every firefighter, young and old, new and experienced, should be judged based on skills and abilities. That includes training, life experiences, fire experiences, proven abilities, and much more. There are older firefighters who can only think of the newer firefighters as "young punks" because they're afraid of being the "old guy." On the other hand, there's the older firefighters who take in the new guys and try to pass on that experience... what an awesome thing! But there's also both sides to the new firefighter... the young punk who can't keep his mouth shut, and the one that truly is in it for the right reasons.
One thing I noticed in one of the replies that bothers me, is election based promotion systems. They are completely ineffective, as they are simply popularity contests. Promotions need to be based on a combination of skills, education, experience, and leadership abilities, not a vote of the majority.
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Woah! 74 words with no punctuation! I'm worn out....
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Permalink Reply by LadyChaplain on
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Thank you Joe!
I definitely think that election based promotion is a crock of you know what. Just because someone has more friends doesn't mean that they are better suited for the job. And it is that very system that will screw me over this election. I, by far, have the most experience to qualify me as a Chaplain - it is indisputable, but since I don't have many friends, a "twice a year" Catholic will likely beat me out this year.
I know in my company you do need to have some certain qualifications to run for office, but that really doesn't mean anything if the person doesn't continually train in those areas.
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Permalink Reply by Terry Lambert on
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Bottom line is everyone needs to train. Regardless of how long you have been in the fire service. This is an ever changing world. New products are always being invinted and produced and they react differantly to fire. I have always lived by one simple phrase "the day youstart thinking you know everything, is the day you need to get out of that job." I pass this on to those who work with me or under me. Education is the key to everything. A few years ago, I had the chance to take a class in Farm Extracation. I made the mistake of thinking I would never use or need that class, so I did not take it. Guess what, I know run with a small department, that's first due is primarily farms. I will be taking that class when it comes up again. So my advice to all, is keep getting the education. At worst all you will be doing is bettering yourself. At max you will be helping your fellow brother's and sister's and community and department's.
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Permalink Reply by Heather Langston on
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HERE, HERE!!! The only way for us to survive is to be as dynamic as our environment. The younger generation needs to remember that much can be learned from those who have been around. The older generation has to remember to that change isn't always a bad thing and its ok to let the new guys step up and take responsibility.
However, without constant and current training-STAY HOME!!! Anyone who doesn't study and get good hands on practice is a liability. Train often and train like you mean it because your life and your crew's lives depend on it.
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Permalink Reply by Matthew on
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Loud and outgoing does not refer to yelling, speaking loudly, or even being bossy. It is however about taking charge and speaking up. Loud an outgoing, at least in how I'm trying to explain it, is refering to an outgoing personality, someone who speaks up, answers questions, talks to everyone and many other traits along those lines. Being an officer, contrary to popular belief is not about barking or yelling orders, although there can be times where that is necessary. The best officers I have met carry a calm tone when they do give orders. They harldy, if ever, have to raise their voice. They command presence with their statements and instructions, and inspire their men to follow them into the gates of hell.
In refering to mild mannered and not taking the lead, I'm refering to the person who trains but rarely speaks up, unless forced too, the person who lacks confidence in what they have to say and the person who would rather follow than lead(or at least it seems that way). There are plenty of firefighters like this, and I'm sure they all have great abilities and are great firefighters, but if they don't speak up or demonstrate this knowledge who is ever going to know? If they fail to speak up for fear of making a mistake will they ever be heard knowing what they are talking about?
I will say this, after being an officer for 5 years now I rarely have to "give orders" on the fire scene, most everyone knows what is expected of them and we work very well as a team. When I do speak it is to relay information, or to update the chief or IC. WE all talk and decide on the best way to do things when we meet new situations. It's a good way to foster growth in the thought process and to encourage new officers who are starting to climb the ranks.
Lady, I don't want to burst your bubble but as soon as you took command or voiced an opinion on how you could get the job done you would be considered out going. I agree to be calm and mild mannered is definitely the way to go on scene, it sets the tone of the call and generally helps to keep almost everyones head on the level on scene. Maybe I misrepresented what I was trying to say by using loud and out going to describe a personality.. I probably should have used commands prescence which basically means: having the knowledge, having the ability to convey it in an effective manner, and having the confidence to make decisions. Teddy Roosevelt said it best: " Speak softly, and carry a big stick."
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I almost lost three firefighters last week cause they failed to follow orders. The Chief directed them to walk a certain way and did ther own thing walking within 30' of a electrical wire on fire... Needless to say the line dropped and landed where they had been standing before they turned tail and ran after the transformer blew. Complacency is our worst enemy. We haven't had a line drop like that since any one of the three of them had joined the department, to them it was just a BS wire burning call, a lot of hype over a made up "situation" to bump call volumes up... All three of them have a new appreciation for the wire burning call...
Perfect practice, makes perfect... Any of the officers out there we need to be leading by example, and nipping things like this in the bud. I was off the day this wire incident happened, but having no SCBA on at any kind of fire...that's just unacceptable. We need to drive the point home about all this stuff, the methyl ethyl bad shit and the shit that will make you drop before you can think I need my mask. Don't be afraid to pull someone off the fire attack cause they aren't wearing gear, or refuse to put their SCBA on. Maybe their ego will be bruised, but they get to go home safe from the fire. As officers the safety of our men is each of our responsibilities, and the most important job we have.
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Actually if you are refering to my post Joe it's panel based promotion system. I agree about an election, a promotion should be based on most qualified person for the job, not whos most popular....
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Permalink Reply by Casper on
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Training is great. Members should get all the training and drills they can get to keep up to date plus take all the "extra" training they can. (on line training, seminars etc.) BUT you need experience to go with that training, You can have 100 training certificates but they are just wallpaper if you can't Safely implement it .
While not always the case, Sometimes the "disrespect" is directed at the "kid" that comes out of FF1 and thinks They know it all and has become Superman over the course of FF1. Or the firefighter that takes every class that gets posted but doesn't take the time to get the experience needed to safely put the training to use.
Believe it or not sometimes the OLD guy still Knows what he is doing. Train safe-Train hard and make it home safe and alive
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You ask why the disrespect then write this.
The fires they fought are not the fires we fight today, they need to evolve.
Where is the lack of respect. I have over 20 years in the fire service both paid and unpaid I spend I lot time helping and working with new guys. There are both bad and good of each and to make a general statement is wrong and say I need to evolve is wrong maybe you should get the chip off your shoulder and take some honor in those who have come before you and learn. I still train and learn as much as anyone and Fire doesnt care how old you are or how much school you have it never discriminates It can kill anyone.
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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If a "veteran" starts a discussion with: "the young guys think that they know everything", it immediately sends a torrent of responses from young guys who reply "the old guys don't want to train anymore and learn new techniques".
Or a "junior" starts a discussion with: "I take all the training that I can get and the old guys resent it" and there is a torrent of responses from the veterans who reply "we do alot of training in house, but the juniors aren't there because they are off somewhere training".
And from there, no middle ground or common thread can be found.
What it gets down to every time is RESPECT. The young guys want it for training, not experience and the veterans want it for their experience and not for training. The young guys want to take all of the exciting classes like RIT, technical rescue and vehicle extrication. The old guys want to do pumps.
The young guys want to fit in NOW. The old guys aren't convinced yet.
The young guys think that they can survive without the old guys. The old guys feel that they don't have to show the young guys nothing.
What you have is a generation gap. The gap will close when there is more listening and less talking...by BOTH!
TCSS.
Art
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