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Explorers/Jr’s Calling them selves Fire Fighters?
Maybe I am the only one who sees it this way but am I the only one who gets rubbed the wrong way when these young kids who are on an explorer post. walk around claiming to be fire fighters. I mean don’t get me wrong I think explorer posts are a great program. I used to belong to one, and it helped me a lot. But you but your butt, if any of the members of the department heard an explorer refer to them selves as a fire fighter and not an explorer that your butt would be walking out of the station looking like an idiot in front of the entire department.
When I was an explorer, we didn’t get pagers or billboard T shirts with the department name. We were there to be seen and not heard. We were there to clean trucks, hand jack hose, clean the bay, incident reports ETC…. and if you proved that you were willing to shut up and learn maybe get to do some structural drills, auto extrication training, and class room training.
Yet when did the title of fire fighter just start getting passed around. I work for a paid department. I spent 14 weeks in the academy, I’ve spent the past 5 ½ years working 24on 24off training my butt off, running master alarms, EMS calls, auto accidents, and working fires. I did my one year probationary period cleaning toilets, mopping floors, stand-bys in the alarm room, stuck on OT during the holidays when every one else was at home with there family’s. I have earned my right along with many other great men and women to be called fire fighter, and half the time when people ask me what I do, I just tell them I work on the base, and leave it at that. I don’t want my back patted and told how good of a job I do. I don’t want people coming up to me and thanking me every Sept. 11th. I just want to go do my job, help people and come home to my family the next day. I don’t know maybe it’s just me.
I know this is probably going to make a lot of the posters mad cause from the grammer and spelling errors I see in most of these posts I would be willing to say about half the people who post on here are kids. So how do you feel about it?
When I was an explorer, we didn’t get pagers or billboard T shirts with the department name. We were there to be seen and not heard. We were there to clean trucks, hand jack hose, clean the bay, incident reports ETC…. and if you proved that you were willing to shut up and learn maybe get to do some structural drills, auto extrication training, and class room training.
Yet when did the title of fire fighter just start getting passed around. I work for a paid department. I spent 14 weeks in the academy, I’ve spent the past 5 ½ years working 24on 24off training my butt off, running master alarms, EMS calls, auto accidents, and working fires. I did my one year probationary period cleaning toilets, mopping floors, stand-bys in the alarm room, stuck on OT during the holidays when every one else was at home with there family’s. I have earned my right along with many other great men and women to be called fire fighter, and half the time when people ask me what I do, I just tell them I work on the base, and leave it at that. I don’t want my back patted and told how good of a job I do. I don’t want people coming up to me and thanking me every Sept. 11th. I just want to go do my job, help people and come home to my family the next day. I don’t know maybe it’s just me.
I know this is probably going to make a lot of the posters mad cause from the grammer and spelling errors I see in most of these posts I would be willing to say about half the people who post on here are kids. So how do you feel about it?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by ECB on
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Let me go back to what I said earlier, its an internal thing, based on your department. What does your department refer to someone that is an Explorer, Cadet or Junior Firefighter as? Is it one of the aforementioned titles, or is it something else. In our Bylaws, and the Bylaws of the Explorer Post, we assign titles to different people, based on the level they are at. I think that we can all have an opinion, but what matters is what is permitted within your organization.
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Permalink Reply by Timothy D. Stone Jr on
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All I gotta say is that when I was an explorer I earned the right to call my self a firefighter. I busted my butt every day to earn that title. There are many other explorers that have busted there butts to call them selfs firefighters. Now that I am a 100% member of my VFD I have no problems with our explorers calling them selfs firefighters if they have earned the right by learning running calls and just busting there butts. If they havent hell year I point it out.
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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Some departments here at FFN do use explorers or juniors as firefighters. While others like mine do not...
In my case they are not even a member of our organization. The explorer post is covered under the BSA. They do not respond to calls, leave school, operate at ANY emergency and they do not call themselves firefighters in my eyes but I am sure they do with their friends but not in the firehouse.
If an explorer is killed during training, they are not a member and are not considered an official firefighter by the organization. Therefore no LODD benefits either.... long before the on-going appeal.
Hey does a Captain in the Explorer Post, call himself Captain so and so when he is around???
Because it appears that some departments use them as if they were a salty jake.
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As long as you meet the requirements laid out in the State and local protocols to do so, Im happy.
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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Sorry Brother BUT you can talk all day and you still won't convince me that an explorer 16-18 years old can nor should they be considered a Firefighter....anymore that a Boy Scout can call themselves a Ranger....or a medic call themselves a Doctor....Just my take....But you asked for opinions and that's mine....Stay safe and always remember to keep the faith.....Paul
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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on
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Is the terminology that important? Is calling them a Junior Firefighter that much easier to say than firefighter? I am completely lost here. Calling somebody a firefighter should come with the turf of joining a fire department and receiving training.
When I was a junior firefighter (from 13 years old until my 18th birthday) I fell in love with the fire service. I fell in love with the traditions, the learning, and the sense of pride for going above and beyond for my community and surrounding communities we responded to. While I never entered a building fire until I was almost 18 years old, I was afforded the task of doing many jobs that made a incident better. I ran air stations, I assisted in getting equipment, I would set a hydrant up while the driver got things going. These tasks by someone over the age of 18 years old are done by "firefighters."
Do your explorers have turnout gear? If you take that turnout gear away from them, how many stick around? If you make it a point to hold back entirely what your juniors are allowed to do (within reason, I understand you won't out your juniors in a burning building, or allow them to do extrication etc) and make it training and meetings only, and someone to badger with crap than you won't build a base of young talent who have the potential to stay around after graduation.
I am all for grades mandates. Kids who want to be firefighters should be taught from the beginning that their education is their top priority and any failing grades should get a suspension until their next marking period.
In a situation where you first joined the fire service, you were given training. How would you feel if your department had a 2 year policy where you weren't allowed to do ANYTHING or you weren't considered a firefighter until that 2 years was up? Looking outside the box many of you who responded that juniors aren't firefighters wouldn't stick around that department. Would you tell someone who asked you what your job was say "probie firefighter?" Bet your ass you would say firefighter because it's a term. A term doesn't make the person who they are, it's their training experience.
Limiting what a junior can do doesn't make them any less than they are, and that is a firefighter. It's hard enough to get the kids away from Laptops, Ipods, X box's, and Playstation 3. Make their experience in their youth something they will remember and for posative reasons. Make it so when they have children that they won't be fearful of allowing their kids to grow up in an enviroment where they are nothing but a Go-for and an unappreciated "fill in the blank here since we can't say firefighter."
Firefighter. It's a simple word with many years of complex changes that have been made. Maybe it's time everyone started to make this change. One day you will be old and unable to function as a firefighter any longer. I guess when that happens you lose the right of being called a firefighter and you become a human traffic cone. Have fun with that.
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So using your logic, it is safe for you to not be called a Lieutenant. If I were a firefighter in your house would I say Hey probie Lt? Would I be able to disregard your orders because your a "probationary" Lieutenant? Does it make you any less of an officer? Does it make you do less than you do now?
I see in your 4 years of being in the fire service (I can't say firefighting per your rules) you have accumulated a nice list of certifications, congratulations. When you first joined the department how long was it before you called yourself a firefighter? Have you ever considered the potential reasoning behind your dislike of calling junior's firefighters is because you didn't begin as one?
When you took your Haz Mat Technician and passed the course, were you ready to jump into the "wholelottabadshit" or did you still need more learning time and practical experience? Werte you still a haz mat tech?
It's a term. I know the juniors in my house are all firefighters. I know the juniors in all the houses around mine have their juniors as firefighters. Know whats funny? We don't have a hard time recruiting OR retaining them. You can take that and put THAT in the bag.
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Permalink Reply by Christopher on
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Ok bobbyg you need to do as I said before read my posts on page 3. The one about how no body knows every thing and we never stop learning. Then before you judge me pull your head out of your butt and read the entire post. Your showing your ignorance.
READ-----Think------POST
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Engineco913
In Respose to your post. 3 years, It took 3 years in a paid department before I considered my self a fire fighter, and I still to this day consider my self a rookie. Shure I help train the probes, but guess what Im still learning every day.
Remember
READ-----THINK-----POST
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It's magic. Neither of you were firefighters until 3 years in. Amazing how that happens.
Read-think-post? Take 3 days and go back and read ALL my posts before you hack this ONE apart.
I am sick of people who shit on Juniors. I am sick of the bullshit that people who are supposed to be our seasoned jakes, and they only care to start stupid damn forums about keeping junior firefighters down by not labeling them firefighters. I have been a firefighter for 15 years now so it's not me being a "junior" that is driving this discussion.
Did I read-think-post this? ABSOLUTELY!!! If I weren't thinking clearly I can guarantee this would have had a hell of a lot more in it. Since I am not going to argue a point which apparently you both are convinced you are right on, I will finish off by stating this. Your insurance policy (for those with Junior firefighters) DOES provide coverage to ALL FIREFIGHTERS REGARDLESS OF AGE. Put it in your SOP's that your explorers and junior's aren't called firefighters. Have one get killed (god forbid) or seriously injured at training, or around the firehouse. Wouldn't your SOP"s make a bitching public show since they wouldn't be covered by your insurance.
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Engineco913 I do appreciate your comments and opinions but your lack of a profesionalism shows right threw every thing you have said. I do like your choice of language knowing that many of the explorers that you are standing up for are on this forum. I hope you don'y use that kind of language in the station when your explorers are around. Sounds like a place I wouldn't want my kids hanging out at.
You seem rather defensive about this whole situation.. Not once did I ever discourage any of the jrs or explorers. I just wanted some opinions. Yet your takeing this very personaly, is there some thing in the past that has you all fired up about this?
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Permalink Reply by Shadow on
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Dude get over it if your that jelouse over jr or explorers calling them selves firefighters then you have issues im an advisor for a post and well bottom line for me if thay wanna show up and do the job i have no problem calling them firefighters, jr's ,or explorers . i mean if your that upset about it go kick your dog and complain to your cheif and give your whole dept a time out ....
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