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Does your F.D. allow blood on or not!!!
The department that my dads on is the city and about 15 years ago they stopped allowing anyone that was blood related to be on the department like "dad,son" or "dad,daughter" and so on they allowed my brother in law to stay on because he's not "blood" but 3 other firefighters had to leave and are now on my department which we allow "blood" to join. Just wanted to see what you all do and your views on this issue. I feel its totally wrong because they lost some great firefighters over this, and I cant even consider to join the city untill my dad retires.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Butch McCurdy on
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ME and my brother both work for the same paid dept, We just cant be on the same shift. We have 3 or 4 sets of brothers, (and even a set of twins). we dont have any Dad son combs, even though it is allowed.
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Permalink Reply by Brian Dumser on
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My F.D. does allow relatives to be hired, and we've recently written an SOP for this. Basically, any members related to eachother by blood or by marriage or simply dating, may not work in the same station on the same shift. (unless manpower needs dictate otherwise). So far it's worked out well.
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Permalink Reply by Patrick Twohig on
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As long as they dont work directly for family we allow them. There has to be a level of supervision between them. For example, the chief son is on my crew, but there is me the shift Capt. and the Asst. Chiefs between him. The system works very well and wee haven't had any problems.
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Permalink Reply by Joey "BigShow" De Piano on
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Hey TJ I use to feel the same way that it was wrong but being a Dad and my own son joining same dept. I can see the othersides argument , when my son first joined it was a proud and great moment I was a fire fighter and he was a junior in fact my 2 older boys were both juniors, when 2 years later I became a Lt. my oldest became a fire fighter and the trouble began, despite my efforts of bringing my military style command coupled with being fair as an officer my son did as most young guys who has a dad not only with years in the service but now one of the guys running things ran with the thought "I can do anything" not tht everyone does that but lets face it if you go to work for your dad you feel you have that little extra pull, Sadly as he did things that should not have taken place I had to rise above the "favor and back office heads up" and step over the chief and suspend him and ultimately had him transfer to a nieghboring towns dept.
Harsh?!!..Maybe but look at the other side as a veteran and as anyone of us can attest to you develope a reputation within the county you serve with other fire , ems , and police when your son/daughter follow you their actions show on you and if they act or do things that aren't up to snuff its reflected on you, wrong yes but not fully wrong, The other down side is as a Dad , Mom sis or older brother its just natural that you will always be directing your attention on them at a scene this can effect your judgement nd cause you to lose sight of the over all picture I mean face it no one wants to see anyone hurt but it is more so when it is your own family, another down side is on the politics side running for office or wanting a vote on something to go your way can become a big issue on both the dept. side and or family side.
If son/daughter doesn't go with your thought it makes tension if he/she does looks bad from members of dept. looks like playing favorites not that you would or won't but like anything in admin side if you go against the grain your shunned by a few who think other wise.
It is also tough on the son/daughter cause every where they go they hear "oh your so n so's son/daughter" and they have big shoes to fill thats hard on them to be bigger and better or at the least feel they have to that causes mistakes and that makes injuries. Either way it is a HUGE double edge sword for all, but I do not believe the dept. makes the rule no family that is a huge discrimination issue and they are opening themselves for a law suite I think.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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In 2006, nearly 60% of Michigan voters decided to ban affirmative action in university admissions. Michigan joined California, Florida, Texas, and Washington in banning the use of race or sex in admissions considerations. This is in stark contrast to the rest of the country. Michigan joined California, Florida, Texas, and Washington in banning the use of race or sex in admissions considerations. With this kind of cultural / socio-economic mindset, perhaps the Michigan culture is not one that considers nepotism any different than affirmative action?
"Writes Tumaskovic-Devey (1993, 99): "After controlling statistically for human capital characteristics, however, African-Americans are still more closely supervised and are found in jobs with less task complexity." Does this sound a little controversial? It was written in relation to a legal case coming out of the University of Michigan. I really doubt, that in such a politically charged atmosphere, and considering that we are talking 1993, affirmative action laws as well as IAFF protection were in place (assuming that it was a city fire department and a local membership).
What I have observed to date about firefighters who had a dad or mom in the fire service was that they had a distinct advantage over someone who didn't. It wasn't just that they knew folks and god knows that many times it's not what you know but who you know. What I have seen is that these new kids already come to the table with an inherent understanding of what the job is all about. Kind of like riding a bike. It just comes easier for them because they fully understand the culture and how to fit into the pack.
I have three daughters that grew up in a fire station. They can walk circles around the new recruits I get at my station and enjoy knowing more than they do about the inner-workings of the department. And yes, they tease them and know that they can get away with it, their dad's the Captain... It's all an advantage. My daughters have made the decision not to become firefighters but I've got to tell you, their experience as station rats puts a pretty high bar for someone to match. Kids that grow up with a parent in the fire service already come into the job being a part of something bigger than themselves and certainly offer a benefit to the community and their fellow firefighters should they make the decision to follow in their mom or dad's footsteps. And what an honor that must be...
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Hey Bro's,
I was just talking about this after my post earlier with a bro and from his opinion yes it would be a civil rights matter of discrimination no doubt however, if like the law regarding "the Sullivan brothers" from WWII where the entire family was wiped out in a ship attack they may somehow apply that to this situation as a precaution to "save the family name"..per say.
Not that it is right or wrong or even something existing but it certainly can be a loop hole in a defense so if there is something more underlining here be aware of that as a "way around"..I personally doubt it would fly but hell anything is possible.
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Permalink Reply by T.J. on
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well I dont want to through out the name because I've got a lot of younger firefighters from ny department on here and I'd hate to get something started, and if they figure it out than fine, but anyways it was a major change when all this happened, the fire department turned to "Public Safety" you know everyone's a cop/firefighter, well they made up some rules and did some major changes and made it hell on these guys and they were pretty much forced to quit, not fired and all the fulltime guys were givin the chance to become a cop, or stay a firefighter tell they retired. My dad is now the last "fulltime" firefighter for the city, and they no longer hire part time guys either, I really feel that the city department will go down the tube because of all this. The city is Union and if you've got blood on the City working anywhere, they will not hire another family member at all.
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I cant agree with you more Mike, but when this new chief came to the city and he was from a bigger city that did this "public safety" thing he started making the change here real fast.
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well let me tell you "IT HAPPENED AND THEY DID IT" we're not a big city and they pushed the people they wanted out. I'm not sure on how the rule is now but they've got it to were NO blood member will work together. I'll pic my dads brain and get some more info. So if you dont believe me then please dont read this discussion anymore.
Thanks TJ
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I'll have to find out how it's worded, but they've got a loop hole figured out.
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o.k. they allowed my brother in law to stay on the department because he's not "blood" but the other 3 brother had to go and like I said before they where pretty much pushed out of the department, but I KNOW that I can go apply for a job with the city but I will NOT get hired that for sure because my dad is still active with the city, and it all comes down to this "being blood issue".
OK I just talked to my Brother-in-law,who's been on the city fire department for over 20 years. I asked him about this again and he told me there is no rule about the blood thing its just they wont hire you and they find another reason why you wont qualify for the job. He said if someone wanted to challenge it they could, and they'd probably win. He said though why would they want to fight it, then they'd just have a big target on their back.
But I just wanted to see if anyone else has this same type of issue going on.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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TJ,
I believe that this would be an excellent time for you to name the city involved and to document the IAFF union local involved. If you won't do that for whatever reason, you're not going to have much credibility on this issue.
Throwing out personal opinions while refusing to identify where this (allegedly) occurred, the telling people to not read the discussion isn't going to get you any traction in this group.
So, in which city did this supposedly take place, on what date, and what were the specific circumstances?
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