Firefighters as Unarmed Agents of Law Enforcement

I was at the National Fire Academy last week and Dr. Onieal pulled me aside to discuss something that he found troubling. Apparently there are those in government who believe that firefighters should be doing more to help combat crime and terrorism by reporting all criminal activity that we come across when we enter peoples homes and businesses.

Now I am not soft on crime - and I do not believe Dr. Onieal is either - but a formal policy of training fire and EMS personnel to identify and report criminal activity - concerns me. We go into peoples homes and businesses and for the most part are welcomed as helpers. We do not want people hesitating to call us for fear we may have them arrested. Nor do we want to be shot at or attacked (any more than we currently are) because someone sees us as the enemy. At the same time I am not suggesting that we openly tolerate criminal activity. But there is a fine line.

I am working on a article on this subject for Firehouse Magazine and I am looking for your input. Should firefighters be trained and required to report criminal activity?

Note: The US Supreme Court has said the firefighters may enter a building without a search warrant to extinguish a fire, under the exigent circumstances exception to the 4th Amendment. It is this "loophole" that certain folks want to exploit.

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Permalink Reply by Jimbo on December 20, 2007 at 10:22pm

I would not do it nor would I let my firemen either. I agree with you 100%

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Permalink Reply by Jimbo on December 20, 2007 at 10:23pm

I love the way you put that

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Permalink Reply by Gil on December 20, 2007 at 11:20pm

BAD BAD BAD idea.....we are firefighters and EMS......not cops or agents of the Government. They should do their own job and let us do ours. Of course we use our best judgement and let who needs to be informed of a meth lab, but I'm not running out and telling on some kid smoking pot. Government agencies keep getting these horrible ideas, and putting the wrong people (us) in the middle of the war zones. BAD BAD BAD Idea!!!!!!!!!!

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Permalink Reply by Greenman on December 21, 2007 at 9:59am

The department I was with in Georgia was a Department of Public Safety, which means all of the cops were also firefighters, and two FFs would stay at the station to drive the equipment and the Cops/FFs would be on LEO patrol. When the tones dropped they drove straight to the scene in their patrol cars and pulled their bunker gear out of their trunks and suited up (and checked their wepaons in with the IC) then fought the fire. Often the fisrt LEO on scene arrived before the rig and would establish command and take accountablity of the occupants while doing a size-up. This is a good example of when FFs are Crossed-trained as Cops and vice-versa (all the Cops had to go to Fire Academy when the department converted to a DPS).

The scary thing to me is when FFs are used as "undercover" intelligence collectors and are sent to a location under the guise of being Firefighters when actually performing a mission for DHS, or government agencies either prior to gaining a warrant, or instead of getting a warrant to perofrm a legitimate search.

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Permalink Reply by David Watts on December 22, 2007 at 2:17pm

Why is it that everybody wants the PO PO to be PO PO'S and Firemen to be Firemen ? We all do the same thing when it comes to doing our Job. We protect life and Property, They do the same thing that we do, The only thing different is that they carry a Gun. If everyone would get off there HIGH horse and if you noticed what I just said " HIGH ", Sounds like to me that some people are trying to hide something, Or they know someone who is doing wrong But can not say anything because it is family. Or something like that. Well, Let me say this. If those of you who say you do not want cross training, Explain the REAL reason WHY you folks do not want it, And please do not beat around the bush. I know some Police Officers, And I think some of them would be good Firefighters, Some I would not let do it. You know who you are. It also sounds like to me that those of you who do not want this "Cross Training" do not have many cop friends,or friends at all. Another thing that bothers me is that I know a FireFighter who has been doing some bad things, And I turned his ASS in for it. I am not a saint But I would write my own mom a speeding ticket. If that tells you anything. Now the Firefighter that I turned in knew that it would come back on the whole fire dept. if he kept doing what he was doing. Well, As you all know this is just my side of the story, But I will tell you this, As soon as I found out about it ,And thought about it for a aminute. It would not have affected me but it would have affected the rest of the dept., So I did not want this problem here anymore. I made a few calls and now the problem is gone. If there is anybody out there who wants to debate the issue of cross training more, Contact the Author of the blog who started it all. There is not a time that I do not look for something wrong on every call. The PO PO Do not ask me to do it. I do it because if there is One DRUG on street, That is to many. There has been to many cases where Kids in there early teens are selling drugs. I would love to get there ASS and beat the shit out of them,Because there Parents are not around to do it,Or there parents are doing it themself, Which I would love to beat the shit out of them also. But we all know that will not happen. So I will leave on that note " BOOK ".

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Permalink Reply by Brian Dumser on May 2, 2009 at 10:27pm

I have no problem repoting something criminal to the P.D. that I observe while at a call or enroute to or from a call. I don't see this as being an "unarmed Law Enforcement Agent", but with being a responsible member of the Fire Service.

Like Greenman said, as long as we're not being used as tools for the P.D. to get around the 4th Amendment to the Constitution, I don't see a problem with reporting something criminal.

As far as someone not calling us because they're afraid, they're only screwing themselves, (nature's way of weeding out the ignorant).

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Permalink Reply by Tony P on May 3, 2009 at 8:24am

I wondered why I didn't remember this thread. Then I noticed when the post before that of Brian D was added. December 2007. Well done Brian you have certainly been searching into history here!